(December 7, 2022 at 11:25 pm)Lek Wrote: Prove God does not exist.

I can't; God may exist. But, there are an infinite number of definitions and descriptions of God, and why favor one over another, both known and unknown? Maybe God exists and he/she/it revealed himself/herself/itself to another civilization long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away??

(December 7, 2022 at 11:25 pm)Lek Wrote: Prove God does not exist.

What kind of God would let people suffer? And don't say "free will" because that's like letting your child play in traffic and doing nothing about it because he/she has "free will", it's just irresponsible and you're being a bad parent by allowing your child to exercise his/her "free will", if your child gets hit by a car and suffers as a result, is it really the child's fault? Of course not, it would be the negligent parent's fault. If we are all God's children, you would think God would take better care of us. But God doesn't take better care of us, because there is no God.

Quote:Prove God does not exist.

Have never claimed he doesn't .....

Quote:Well it's nice to see you do believe in something that is not proven by science. By the way, prove your assertion.

Who needs to prove existence has always existed? it's pretty much a given that science would conclude existence has always existed...

Now if you could get around to proving god that would be great....

Existence includes time, so existence has at least existed for all time.

(December 8, 2022 at 9:50 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(December 7, 2022 at 11:25 pm)Lek Wrote: Prove God does not exist.

What kind of God would let people suffer? And don't say "free will" because that's like letting your child play in traffic and doing nothing about it because he/she has "free will", it's just irresponsible and you're being a bad parent by allowing your child to exercise his/her "free will", if your child gets hit by a car and suffers as
result, is it really the child's fault? Of course not, it would be the negligent parent's fault. If we are all God's children, you would think God would take better care of us. But God doesn't take better care of us, because there is no God.

If the child dies from being hit by a car, would the child go directly to heaven/paradise instantly. You know, the goal of every believer?

God has a plan for everyone, right?

Getting creamed by a car is a plan.

(December 8, 2022 at 10:29 am)h4ym4n Wrote:

(December 8, 2022 at 9:50 am)Ahriman Wrote: What kind of God would let people suffer? And don't say "free will" because that's like letting your child play in traffic and doing nothing about it because he/she has "free will", it's just irresponsible and you're being a bad parent by allowing your child to exercise his/her "free will", if your child gets hit by a car and suffers as
result, is it really the child's fault? Of course not, it would be the negligent parent's fault. If we are all God's children, you would think God would take better care of us. But God doesn't take better care of us, because there is no God.

If the child dies from being hit by a car, would the child go directly to heaven/paradise instantly. You know, the goal of every believer?

God has a plan for everyone, right?

Getting creamed by a car is a plan.

Yeah it's a plan if the child really does go to Heaven, but I don't buy that shit. If you die too early, you might just have to start all over again.

So God doesn't exist because of your image of what God should be or what someone else believes are his characteristics?

There are two fundamental things in quantum "existence". These are state and events, or one can thing of them as relationship and change.

The two are related -- state holds the probabilities for future events, and provides for causality. State is just a set of relationships that we can describe as bits of information. Because we live in a 3-dimensional space, state involves space.

Events are the change in those relationships. Change is the only way that an observer could know that state, or anything at all actually exists. Time is ordered change. One could imagine disordered change, or circular change, but we happen to have linearly-ordered change. We live in time.

So, time or space could exist differently, and probably have (or do, or will). But without some version of state and change, there is no evidence of existence at all. Therefore there has always been state and change, in some form. If there was ever a "time" that there wasn't, we would literally be contradicting ourselves.

I don't think there was a time when there "wasn't". Everything that exists now always existed. We're all a manifestation of that eternal existence. How does that preclude God?