(December 9, 2022 at 4:16 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(December 9, 2022 at 3:56 pm)Lek Wrote: Everything is a characteristic of God.

Bone cancer in children? Foetal alcohol syndrome? Cholera epidemics? Dysentery? Earthquakes,  famines, mudslides that wipe out entire villages? Homeless people freezing to death? Incinerated children in Ukrainian schools?

Boru

What does this have to do with the existence of God? God can't exist be because these things do?

(December 9, 2022 at 4:19 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: A term that applies to everything, means nothing in particular. Not that it matters, Leks god isn't everything, it's a wizard in the sky, same as every other theist. They refuse to acknowledge that because even they know how stupid it sounds. It's a dumb idea forever in search of a justification just one notch less ignorant than what bore it.

-and yet....

Everything is very definable. Everything means ALL. Very simple.

Quote:What does this have to do with the existence of God? God can't exist be because these things do?

Well, a good one can't ....

Quote:Everything is very definable. Everything means ALL. Very simple.

Nope....

(December 9, 2022 at 5:21 pm)Helios Wrote:

Quote:Everything is very definable. Everything means ALL. Very simple.

Nope....

OK. I'll change my description to all.

Quote:OK. I'll change my description to all.

Still doesn't help you....

(December 9, 2022 at 5:18 pm)Lek Wrote:

(December 9, 2022 at 4:16 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Bone cancer in children? Foetal alcohol syndrome? Cholera epidemics? Dysentery? Earthquakes,  famines, mudslides that wipe out entire villages? Homeless people freezing to death? Incinerated children in Ukrainian schools?

Boru

What does this have to do with the existence of God?  God can't exist be because these things do?

Well, since ‘everything is a characteristic of God’, surely that includes the things I listed. Do you find God in the swollen belly of a malnourished child? Do you kneel and pray at the maggot-riddled body of a dead dog?

The point is that if God is ‘everything’, then He’s not just love and compassion and glitter-covered unicorns. He’s also hatred and cruelty and sexually abused toddlers.

Boru

“If it turns out that there is a God, I don't think that he's evil. But the worst that you can say about him is that basically he's an underachiever..” -- Woody Allen

(December 9, 2022 at 1:55 pm)Lek Wrote:

(December 9, 2022 at 9:03 am)Gwaithmir Wrote: The burden of proof lies on he who alleges. Religious people should know that I’m perfectly willing to believe in god(s), ghosts, mediums, demons, angels, spirits, channeling, miracles, horoscopes, astrology, psychics, Ouija boards, the supernatural, and anything else for that matter as long as they adhere to one proviso: Prove it! Don’t give me speculation, guesses, hopes, dreams, wishes, desires, beliefs, faith (or appeals to faith), or indoctrinations. Don’t give me one-time-only, non-repeatable, non-testable events. Don’t give me internal alterations in one’s psychology or physiology that can’t be tested observed, or demonstrated, only felt or believed. And don’t give me effects that can’t be clearly related to the supposed cause.

I have no objection to believing in a god as long as proof based upon a rational standard of knowledge is forthcoming. Is that too much to ask? But surely theists can’t expect me to adopt their beliefs on the basis of what has been presented thus far. Every “proof” I’ve heard and every piece of evidence I’ve seen for the existence of god(s) is easily countered by rational evidence and arguments to the contrary. No convincing evidence for the existence of any deity has ever emerged. But I’m more than willing to listen to theistic arguments or view theistic evidence as long as cross-examination is permitted. As conditions now stand, theology rests far more on superstition and faith than upon facts and reason.

I can't force anyone to believe. I enjoy the discussion, but the decision to believe in God or not can only be made by each individual.

That is pure sophistry. One cannot argue with you and I will not waste my time any further.

(December 9, 2022 at 5:20 pm)Lek Wrote:

(December 9, 2022 at 4:19 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: A term that applies to everything, means nothing in particular.  Not that it matters, Leks god isn't everything, it's a wizard in the sky, same as every other theist.  They refuse to acknowledge that because even they know how stupid it sounds. It's a dumb idea forever in search of a justification just one notch less ignorant than what bore it.  

-and yet....

Everything is very definable. Everything means ALL. Very simple.

Gabhopper said, “Sometimes I wish I had a scroll of my entire life, so I could peek at what comes next.”

“Such a scroll exists at the Akashic Library,” Xena revealed. “Within its walls are an endless number of scrolls; each one, when unrolled, as tall as a person, each one inscribed randomly with every possible permutation of the twenty-four Greek letters from alpha to omega.”

“But wouldn’t all but a very small fraction of these scrolls contain nothing but gibberish?”

“Yes, Gabhopper, but the number of scrolls containing meaningful information, although a small fraction of the total scrolls, would still be infinite. Somewhere within the Akashic Library would be written the true story of your life from beginning to end.”

“But how could I ever find it, Xena?”

“Not only that, but how could you ever be sure you had the genuine story of your life, and not one that gets everything correct except that you fall in love with Joxer?”

“So this Akashic Library is useless!”

Xena nodded. “The more information you convey, the less knowledge you convey, and to convey infinite information is to convey no knowledge at all.”