(January 24, 2023 at 6:52 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(January 24, 2023 at 2:04 pm)Leonardo17 Wrote: This was a main event that was treated in the news today. A Neo-Nazi idiot called Rasmus Paludan burned the Quran in front of the Turkish Embassy in Sweden. Sweden seems to think it’s a liberty of expression, I rather think it’s a hate crime.
 
Proof: Another video he posted some 9 months ago that I will share here:
 



 
Other element: These events are usually followed by some mass protests in other parts of the world + some religious show of force + the burning of Swedish flags etc.
 
I don’t think this should be our main issue either. An imbecil with a certificate is not the main issue of Muslims around the world. I think our main issues should be things that are closely related to our ability to understand the original message like human rights, modernization, women’s rights, secularism, freedom of choice in terms of religion, tolerance, education, ability to create artistic / scientific / literary works, being more than a terror and oil exporting region of the world, the adoption of democratic, individualistic, libertarian, 21st century values. These should be our issues. Currently Turkey is the only democratic and secular Muslim majority country in the world and all of its “Muslim” neighbors are trying to Islamize Turkey. So as always, I believe that our own issues are always much more important and require much deeper actions than the shouting of slogans or the burning of Swedish flags. But I am still sharing the video just to demonstrate that this is a hate crime and not a simple usage of the freedom of expression.

If burning the Koran is a hate crime, then I might argue preaching a monotheistic self-aggrandizing religion like Islam is also a hate crime.    The Koran didn’t get to where it is today by not vigorously inciting the destruction of other people’s holy texts everywhere Islam went for the last 1400 years. 

Where are most of the native creeds and religions and holy texts in places where islam rules supreme today?   Where they went, Islam and Koran can also be made to go.

I am a little more pragmatic on that. We discussed these issues with Grand Nudger before. I expressed my ideas about these arguments. There is a huge Muslim population in countries like Sweden. And the action of this man were heard all around the Middle-East too. So in effect he did two things:
1) He insulted the Muslim minorities in his country. And that’s normal for him. This guy is a Hitler-loving fascist (just check him on google).
2) He nourished a wave of protest in Muslim nations and gave them just another opportunity to shout their anti-modernist / anti-western slogans.
 
So yes: He can burn whatever book he wants if he wants to but No: I don’t think he did it because he read the book and didn’t like its content. I think he did it to insult Muslims because he is a white supremacist (But that’s my personal opinion I don’t have any evidence to support that – But I firmly believe that )

(January 25, 2023 at 9:06 am)Leonardo17 Wrote:

(January 24, 2023 at 4:04 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Where in the Original Message™ does it say that burning magic book is double-plus ungood?

No. But in the whole region around here you’ve had a lot of show of force. Women with headscarves (how could we do without them), burning of Swedish flags, bearded idiots shouting İslamist slogans (just three month before the general elections in Turkey. What a coincidence?) etc. just typical ego-responses and more enmity between human beings as if this is exactly what we need.

   I see myself as above this kind of people. They are not really my problem. That’s why I created this topic. But he is still what he is. There are many Muslims in Europe who do feel offended by that. So I personally really don’t like what he did. I see it as a purely racist motivated action.

Well, if burning a magic book wasn't any concern of The Original Message™..we'd have to call it kosher.

IDK if you're above those kinds of people, regardless of how you see yourself.  You're having a similar reaction to the book burning - imagining it to be a hate crime.  Still, you're right, it hasn't sent you into a fit, or at least not the same kind of fit.  IDK Leo, maybe they just care more about god and his magic book than you do?

(January 25, 2023 at 8:58 am)Leonardo17 Wrote:

(January 24, 2023 at 2:19 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Burning a book - any book - is not a hate crime. It’s stupid, childish, and spiteful, but not a hate crime.

Boru

Yes. And That’s what the Swedish Government is saying. And they are right, you may be not liking a book, a book being a physical object you have the right to burn it. That’s their law.
 
But look at his face: This is a Hitler loving / Muslim hating psychopath. That’s what he is doing. So I reserve the right to call him a SoB. And that’s my freedom of expression.

I don’t disagree that he’s a pinhead, but your earlier claim was that burning the Quran (or playing  football with it) constitutes a hate crime. It doesn’t, that’s all I’m saying.


Burning a ‘holy’ book, however, DOES qualify as sacrilege, but - as a highly sacrilegious individual - I’m okay with that.

Boru

(January 25, 2023 at 10:21 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote:

(January 25, 2023 at 9:06 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: No. But in the whole region around here you’ve had a lot of show of force. Women with headscarves (how could we do without them), burning of Swedish flags, bearded idiots shouting İslamist slogans (just three month before the general elections in Turkey. What a coincidence?) etc. just typical ego-responses and more enmity between human beings as if this is exactly what we need.

   I see myself as above this kind of people. They are not really my problem. That’s why I created this topic. But he is still what he is. There are many Muslims in Europe who do feel offended by that. So I personally really don’t like what he did. I see it as a purely racist motivated action.

Well, if burning a magic book wasn't any concern of The Original Message™..we'd have to call it kosher.

IDK if you're above those kinds of people, regardless of how you see yourself.  You're having a similar reaction to the book burning - imagining it to be a hate crime.  Still, you're right, it hasn't sent you into a fit, or at least not the same kind of fit.  IDK Leo, maybe they just care more about god and his magic book than you do?

All I said is that you have to understand I book before burning it. Books are designed to be read, not to be played ball with or to be used as charcoal.
 
I’m a big supporter of freedom of expression too. And if the Swedish Law says it is ok, than it has to be OK. I don’t like Charlie Hebdo either. I hate their sense of humor but that’s not so repulsive. Because in the end Charlie Hebdo is a satirical magazine that is designed for a particular audience. So if you don’t like it you don’t read it.
 
What this guy did is different. First of all everyone knows he is a far-right activist who hates Muslims not because of religious thoughts but because of racial reasons. And what he did is simply abusive toward people who are living as minorities across Europe and who already feel they don’t really have the same rights as Europeans who are “white” if you know what I mean. I am not saying these people are right. But there are teenagers etc. who live in suburbs or in poor neighborhoods. So when they see this guy doing what he did in their smartphones, some of them will feel they have even more reasons for feeling discriminated or feeling they must take revenge on “white” Europeans.
 
That’s all I am saying. So what he did is not cool as you would put it.
 
By the way. There is a political aspect to the event too. Victor Orban + The President for three more month is blocking Sweden’s accession to NATO. To everything I could also add that this isn’t the cause. The current government wants something (anything) that he could use to show his electorate that he is strong vis a vis the West. I really hope they give him nothing of the sort and in the end: No one is opposed to Sweden’s accession to NATO. Sweden is being to relaxed on Terror groups like the PKK. But the only way to address this is a better Turkish government who can focus on real issues rather than some childish provocations. (I said childish provocations).
 
For those interested:  https://www.yahoo.com/news/sweden-seeks-...01956.html

I don't have to understand a book before burning it. It might be cold out. Besides, my understanding your magic book doesn't do anything to dissuade me from burning one. That's unearned deference that magic books acquire by association. I'm fine with a world without magic books...I'd greatly prefer it, but just like any other childs toy..you don't burn them, you wait for the child to put it down on it's own then quietly dispose of the fucking nuisance.

That's a waste; There are tons of things to do with it;

Line a bird cage

Fold the pages into fun origami

Paper mache

Toilet paper

general arts and crafts

(January 25, 2023 at 5:51 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote: That's a waste; There are tons of things to do with it;

Line a bird cage

Fold the pages into fun origami

Paper mache

Toilet paper

general arts and crafts

Bird cage liner is a great suggestion.  Recycling and all that.  We have two parrots who would happily crap all over those pages.

Be a little hot, but that 90% of the way to compost already.

Mistreating books no matter what they are is bullshit. You don't have to like what the book says just don't ruin it.

I can't stand it when I borrow a book or get a used one that has been dog-eared or highlighted. All I am saying is that lining a bird cage with the pages makes more sense to me than burning it.