First off let me admit something that many of you may find shameful. I have never studied out evolution and for the most part in school (Florida) I did not receive an education in it. That didn't really change much in college either because I am currently still attending that private Christian school as a senior.

One thing I am curious to know though is if you have a star that is 5 million light years away and we are seeing the light from it now how in the world can people say the earth was made 6,000 - 15,000 years ago? I have heard that people believe God created the light inbetween so we could see them or the idea that 6,000 - 15,000 years ago the speed of light wasn't the constant that it is now.

Is this seriously the best arguments that YEC has to offer? The other baffling thing to me is why people get so worked up with evolution anyway. It has nothing to do with the existence/non-existence of a higher power. The only thing is really shoots in the face is a literal interpretation of Genesis which even some Christians think wasn't intended to be literal in the first place.

I am not sure if the speed of light is one of the main arguments against YEC or not but it seems like that elephant in the room itself is enough to make the idea look pretty absurd.

Quote:I have heard that people believe God created the light inbetween so we could see them or the idea that 6,000 - 15,000 years ago the speed of light wasn't the constant that it is now.

Idiots who believe in talking snakes are quite capable of convincing themselves of just about anything.

(December 8, 2011 at 12:21 pm)Voltair Wrote: Is this seriously the best arguments that YEC has to offer?

What else CAN they offer? Try to claim that Andromeda is only 6,000 light years away?

The biggest problem with their apology is it effectively makes Yahweh-Jesus a liar. If the light only appears to indicate the universe is 2 million+ years old, then Yahweh has tricked me. How then can we be certain of anything that comes from his scripture?

Quote:The other baffling thing to me is why people get so worked up with evolution anyway. It has nothing to do with the existence/non-existence of a higher power. The only thing is really shoots in the face is a literal interpretation of Genesis which even some Christians think wasn't intended to be literal in the first place.

If Genesis isn't literal, there was no literal fall from grace. No fall from grace means no need for Jesus to redeem us on the cross. No Jesus on the cross means no Christianity. Game. Set. Match.

Yes, YEC makes God a cosmic forger that deliberately has made the universe appear older than it really is.

(December 8, 2011 at 12:27 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:I have heard that people believe God created the light inbetween so we could see them or the idea that 6,000 - 15,000 years ago the speed of light wasn't the constant that it is now.

Idiots who believe in talking snakes are quite capable of convincing themselves of just about anything.

Any particular idiot in mind? such as one Statler who came up with "non-isotropic propogation of light", which in effect says light would travel at whatever speed it takes to keep the biblical account intact in the face of astronomical observation, but changes its behavior to appear to travel at the normal light speed C when foolish physicists doubts such divine convenience and actually tries to measure light speed?.

In the same thread where he proponded this "theory", he claimed to be a "government scientist" who worked in genetics, argued against radiometric dating through a an arithmatic demonstration in which it was clear he had no clue how to apply arithmatic division to numbers expressed in scientific notion.

[rubbing temples] Didn't we already have this conversation with Statler? I seem to remember Rhythm getting into it with him and then reaching for the whiskey to numb the mental trauma.

(December 8, 2011 at 1:21 pm)thesummerqueen Wrote: [rubbing temples] Didn't we already have this conversation with Statler? I seem to remember Rhythm getting into it with him and then reaching for the whiskey to numb the mental trauma.

I prefer rum, whiskey tastes like cough medicine.
Statlers funny.

Quote:Any particular idiot in mind?

Always, Chuck.


Actually we have a pair of them.

(December 8, 2011 at 3:19 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Any particular idiot in mind?

Always, Chuck.


Actually we have a pair of them.

Indeed, everytime when you think you've seen the most idiotic moron that christianity has produced, christainity outdoes itself and produce another more idiotic still.

(December 8, 2011 at 12:21 pm)Voltair Wrote: First off let me admit something that many of you may find shameful. I have never studied out evolution and for the most part in school (Florida) I did not receive an education in it. That didn't really change much in college either because I am currently still attending that private Christian school as a senior.

Well, at least you've retained your skepticism but there's plenty of mateiral out there to let you know how things are. I'll direct you to a series of youtube videos that essentially debunks young-earth-creationism and the adherants that proletyze it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnJX68ELbAY

The author, auronra, does give a cursory explaination as to what evolutoin is and why YEC is wrong, so I defiantely recommend it to you.

As for your schooling so far, all I can say that I'm not surprised at all. Florida is simply a terrible state to live and I'm not going to miss it when the global climate change florida denies finally buries the entire state in a thick layer of ocean water.
Sorry, I just hear a lot of terrible stories that all come from your state. I now live in Texas, so my state doesn't do much better.

(December 8, 2011 at 12:21 pm)Voltair Wrote: One thing I am curious to know though is if you have a star that is 5 million light years away and we are seeing the light from it now how in the world can people say the earth was made 6,000 - 15,000 years ago? I have heard that people believe God created the light inbetween so we could see them or the idea that 6,000 - 15,000 years ago the speed of light wasn't the constant that it is now.

You've correctly ascertained that it is impossible. The laws of physics are demonsterably and demonstratably unchanging and hold true everywhere we see. The speed of light is about 300,000 kilometers (186,000 miles) per second and can and will never be anything else - same as gravity, thermodynamics, and numerous other things that creationists otherwise ignore.
The creationist arguement of C (the speed of light) being able to change over time is disengenuous because there is no evidence that any of our laws of physics has or even can change over time. At best, they can argue that our understanding and ability to express and predict using physics has changed but that doesn't help their arguements at all.

(December 8, 2011 at 12:21 pm)Voltair Wrote: Is this seriously the best arguments that YEC has to offer? The other baffling thing to me is why people get so worked up with evolution anyway. It has nothing to do with the existence/non-existence of a higher power. The only thing is really shoots in the face is a literal interpretation of Genesis which even some Christians think wasn't intended to be literal in the first place.

You again hit the nail on the head. The religious folk not only have to defend the idea of god and jesus, but because YEC are bible literalists, their YEC points are mostly in defense of the genesis chapters and other biblical claims - like Noah's flood. They have to argue that all of these things are true because otherwise, it knocks down their literalist biblical view of the world. If one thing is wrong, then others must be as well.

(December 8, 2011 at 12:21 pm)Voltair Wrote: I am not sure if the speed of light is one of the main arguments against YEC or not but it seems like that elephant in the room itself is enough to make the idea look pretty absurd.

It's not the main arguement, but it's one of the most overt and obvious.
After all, one of the tenets of Christian (and other) faiths is that god either simply doesn't or cannot lie and the bible is the word of god. If we're getting light from places far enough away, then god is either lying to us or he doesn't exist. There are no other possibilities to a literal bible believer.