Word salad. Splendid. Where does toe-stubbing and explosive diarrhea fit into this?

Try again.

(May 2, 2023 at 5:36 pm)The End of Atheism Wrote:

(May 2, 2023 at 5:24 pm)zebo-the-fat Wrote: So share your "evidence" if it's convincing I will convert in an instant (that's what convincing means!)

OK for now let's use an analogy, let's say you have 10000 years of free time to design a human being or a fly, you have all the resources of nature and the latest technology. Odds are you're going to fail (not certain but very very probable). Since a reasonablly intelligent being (you) can't create things like human beings, the origin of human beings is likely a much more intelligent agent. 

You may say nature or evolution, but nature doesn't do anything because it's not a personal agent, it doesn't have a will.

I can think of more examples to clarify this, generally it takes work and finesse to design things, you don't wait for your laptop to turn on by itself and write smart programs, you should take action and intervene. Likewise, some agent should take action and intervene in order to start life and nature, etc. So it's vanishingly unlikely that we came out of something blind like nature

Analogies are not evidence. And flawed analogies are worse.

What does not being a personal agent have to do with what evolution is, or is not, capable of? That sounds like you are making the claim that a personal agent is necessary to explain the variety of life, got any evidence for that claim?

You do understand, that claims are not evidence, right?

And, lets say even if you were able to prove that evolution is not capable for accounting for the existence of humans, that alone does not offer a shred of evidence that a god exists. The claim that a god exists, is a claim that needs to be supported, disproving evolution does not get close to proving a god exists. And of course, you are not even close to disproving evolution.

More examples of the type you posted, are not evidence. We asked for evidence.

(May 2, 2023 at 3:39 pm)The End of Atheism Wrote: As I leaf through dozens of miserable pages of discussions, I see some atheists go so far as to challenge the Almighty God and declare that they are prepared to go to Hell, that they would rather go to hell than -according to these weirdos- worship an unjust deity. 

Hell is one of those concepts that the human mind can't really understand when it's defined generically. So here is a really down to earth example:

[Warning: if you're eating something while reading this, stop now]
Try to imagine the chilling moment when your bowels are about to explode with diarrhea. You're not home, you look around and notice a restaurant nearby, you're running as fast as you can in its direction, as intestinal colic became unbearable. You come in and the restaurant hosts try to greet you but you don't give a damn, you finally reach the bathroom door, and then bang: The bathroom door is locked, so you stand there and try to force the lock, but nothing works! So you decide to give it a few kicks to break in.

But, of course, your noisy kicks are annoying a lot of guests. So they decide to report you to the restaurant's owner who, in a fit of rage, instructs the hosts to lock the restaurant from the inside and force you to pay for the damages you caused. It turns out the owner is a psychopathic bastard who also owns a gun, and he warns you that if you try to empty your bowels anywhere besides the bathroom, he'll literally shoot you in the head.

So you repeatedly try to kick down the bathroom door in desperation, while agonizing in pain, but to no avail. Some 20 minutes later, your intestines are perforated and fecal matter has reached critical organs of your body. You finally collapse and die, while the evil hosts are congratulating each other because you've been hit with cosmic karma in a spectactular fashion, and the restaurant is finally re-opened so that everybody can get out, as they can no longer withstand the stench of your corpse.

Imagine if we were to extend this hellish scenario for, say, 4 hours. Imagine four hours of going through this nightmare. Wouldn't you give anything in the world to avoid going through such a horrific experience?

Wouldn't you be prepared to give away all your money and possessions to avoid, say, 4 lengthy days, of constant, gut-wrenching, instestinal colic ?

Now imagine a place where you go through all that for 4 months, 4 damn months !!!!!!!!! nonstop, unimaginable pain of explosive diarrhea. Just take as much time as you need to really imagine what it would be like?

Now, if we redefine hell as : "a much worse, much longer experience than what you just read", the concept of hell becomes much more relatable! I doubt many atheists really think hell through. I mean, that's why they are atheists.

You know, I've seen and read some fucked up shit in my line of work.

This...


This is noting but the inane and boring bleatings of an ignoramus so lacking in intelligence, wit or common decency that the world's supply of all three will increase on their deaths. You should really try out for the Darwin awards, lad.

(May 2, 2023 at 5:46 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Analogies are not evidence. And flawed analogies are worse.

What does not being a personal agent have to do with what evolution is, or is not, capable of? That sounds like you are making the claim that a personal agent is necessary to explain the variety of life, got any evidence for that claim?

You do understand, that claims are not evidence, right?

And, lets say even if you were able to disprove that evolution is not capable for accounting for the existence of humans, that alone does not offer a shred of evidence that a god exists.

More examples of the type you posted, are not evidence. We asked for evidence.

OK the key problem here is evolution. You already speak of evolution as if it were an agent, evolution is just how things happened and changed over time, let's call it a process. The same way the ball walking into the net is a process : it's what's happening but it explains nothing. Someone like a football player kicked the ball purposefully into the net; likewise a master agent "kicked" evolution into human beings and varities of life forms etc. I know this is a fishy way to frame the argument but hopefully you get the idea

(May 2, 2023 at 5:49 pm)GUBU Wrote: You know, I've seen and read some fucked up shit in my line of work.

This...


This is noting but the inane and boring bleatings of an ignoramus so lacking in intelligence, wit or common decency that the world's supply of all three will increase on their deaths.  You should really try out for the Darwin awards, lad.

You clearly don't have a rebuttal so you lose, go back to hiding

(May 2, 2023 at 4:00 pm)The End of Atheism Wrote:

(May 2, 2023 at 3:54 pm)arewethereyet Wrote: Imagine having to read the ramblings of an idiot because it's part of your job as staff.

Hey, whoever you are, watch your tone and be respectful. You really don't want me to fight back.

Hey, arsehole, watch your fucking tone with the staff!

Consider THAT free advice and a warning of consequences.

(May 2, 2023 at 5:56 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(May 2, 2023 at 4:00 pm)The End of Atheism Wrote: Hey, whoever you are, watch your tone and be respectful. You really don't want me to fight back.

Hey, arsehole, watch your fucking tone with the staff!

Consider THAT free advice and a warning of consequences.

Nobody in the world is allowed to disrespect me, staff or not. So consider that free advice too. You're also being very disrespectful and annoying btw

(May 2, 2023 at 5:59 pm)The End of Atheism Wrote:

(May 2, 2023 at 5:56 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Hey, arsehole, watch your fucking tone with the staff!

Consider THAT free advice and a warning of consequences.

Nobody in the world is allowed to disrespect me, staff or not. So consider that free advice too. You're also being very disrespectful and annoying btw

Try this.

You're a sad little troll who is close to being flushed with the rest of the turds.

Tick, tock, motherfucker.

(May 2, 2023 at 6:01 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote:

(May 2, 2023 at 5:59 pm)The End of Atheism Wrote: Nobody in the world is allowed to disrespect me, staff or not. So consider that free advice too. You're also being very disrespectful and annoying btw

Try this.

You're a sad little troll who is close to being flushed with the rest of the turds.

Tick, tock, motherfucker.

I just reported you for violent language, you also deserve being flushed