(June 9, 2023 at 7:52 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: [...]
All powerful god can not have reason to love, or hate.   For that matter, an all powerful god has no reason whatsoever to use its power in any specific way. 

So all powerful god that did this or did that, or that should be worshiped are a self contradicting concepts.

Not only that, but if it's all powerful and eternal, then it's done nothing in and of itself to deserve its exalted or all-powerful position.

(June 10, 2023 at 3:49 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: I didn’t say any “god” worthy of worship is self contradicting.   I say a god that is both all powerful and worthy of worship is self contradicting.

Not in any clear or obvious way.

(June 9, 2023 at 3:15 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote:

(June 9, 2023 at 2:47 pm)R-Farmer Wrote: I can see how that is a problem if you think god is all loving/loves everyone equally..  I can see how this would not generally be considered a plus or attribute of God. The truth of the matter is God can be down right vengeful and spiteful. especially to those who do not belong to Him. This is indeed a good example of this. that said the p[assage does not imply god puts evil in the heart of men. But rather is raining evil down on those who oppose his servant Cyrus. If you think this is bad wait till you hear about Moses and pharaoh at the Red Sea crossing.

It is very cute that you should speak of “god” with a such an adult like knowing air as if god actually exists to be known.

God can be know if you approach Him on His terms.

(June 9, 2023 at 2:52 pm)Tomato Wrote: Definitely not a deity worth acknowledging.

And, that is why we are here to make that decision. Why we have been placed outside of God's kingdom where His will is not done on earth as it is in Heaven.

(June 9, 2023 at 3:25 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote:

(June 9, 2023 at 1:37 pm)R-Farmer Wrote: I say all sins are the same because all sins meet the same fate which The Apostle Paul says is death.

Ths same punishment for all crimes sounds like essence of injustice.

and if sin is less of a crime and more of a Spiritual infection or virus? Does a doctor always prescribe different medicine for the same disease or infection? Just because you may have different symptoms or different severity of symptoms doesn't always mean you have a different virus or infection.

The same is true for spiritual infection of sin. Just because your symptoms of the spiritual sin infection we all have are different, it doesn't mean the treatment should be different (what is needed to over come this spiritual infection) Nor does it mean that if we don't get treated it will keep us from death. As the end result of a fully developed sin infection is death.

(June 9, 2023 at 5:01 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(June 9, 2023 at 2:47 pm)R-Farmer Wrote: I can see how that is a problem if you think god is all loving/loves everyone equally..  I can see how this would not generally be considered a plus or attribute of God. The truth of the matter is God can be down right vengeful and spiteful. especially to those who do not belong to Him. This is indeed a good example of this. that said the p[assage does not imply god puts evil in the heart of men. But rather is raining evil down on those who oppose his servant Cyrus. If you think this is bad wait till you hear about Moses and pharaoh at the Red Sea crossing.

If God is vengeful and spiteful, am I doing God’s will when I’m being vengeful and spiteful? 

It remains unclear why God would rain down evil on anyone.

Boru

If a judge sentences some men to life time of hard labor, and others death.. If you worked for that same judge as a clerk would it mean you will be forcing people to do hard labor or putting people to death?

As I pointed out God does not rain down evil on everyone. If you read your verse in context The evil being rained down is focused on the enemy's or countries that stand in opposition to God's servant Cyrus. This verses only applies to those who oppose Cyrus. (who has been dead for several thousand years.)

Textual legalism probably isn't a satisfactory response. This verse only applies to these people, that verse only applies to those - but, ofc, there's a verse for everything, and a whole chest full of convenient translations for each. For every group of people past and present on a violent gods shitlist. This is not..like discriminatory sentencing..... generally, behavior smiled upon by our courts - and so the context of judges and sentencing may make it even worse.

God as described is a violent criminal, or a crooked judge? Are you asking whether working with a violent criminal or crooked judge makes you culpable, or an accomplice? I enjoy that you're comfortable with the notion that the existence of a god is at least fundamentally knowable - and that maybe sometimes it does fucked up things. I do wonder if you'll be able to maintain a commitment to that position, and what you think it could possibly accomplish?

I also think that it would be so much more useful if you focused more on why we should worship or serve a particular god (or anything, really). I feel like discussions about how god did this or that or our lives are so and so can only be circumstantial. So god did this, so god did that, so we find ourselves with a choice. Okay...and?

(June 10, 2023 at 8:24 am)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 9, 2023 at 3:25 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Ths same punishment for all crimes sounds like essence of injustice.

and if sin is less of a crime and more of a Spiritual infection or virus? Does a doctor always prescribe different medicine for the same disease or infection? Just because you may have different symptoms or different severity of symptoms doesn't always mean you have a different virus or infection.

The same is true for spiritual infection of sin. Just because your symptoms of the spiritual sin infection we all have are different, it doesn't mean the treatment should be different (what is needed to over come this spiritual infection) Nor does it mean that if we don't get treated it will keep us from death. As the end result of a fully developed sin infection is death.

The end result of life itself, is death. What's your point?

To describe a lack of christian faith as a disease, and to threaten death/pain for failure to be christian.

This seems to be following a familiar script.

- God can be known if approached on his terms.

My point - his terms vary according to what sect you belong to. Being wishy-washy is a piss poor selling point for a god. Spell out your terms in something other than riddles that people all over the world (and across time) argue about.

Mysterious ways...blah, blah, blah.