As a character arc, I've seen worse.

(June 17, 2023 at 2:30 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(June 17, 2023 at 1:47 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Chattering isn't important. You duck and weave and fail and fail and fail. We've been through this more times than you can count.

I don't agree with Farmer, but isn't chattering like, the basis of discussion?

Nonsensical chatter is NOT.

(June 21, 2023 at 8:49 am)R-Farmer Wrote:

(June 20, 2023 at 9:43 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Well, I guess there’s just nothing magical about the story, then, eh R.

Again, why would God create a world that He Could only supernaturally manipulate? Would it not make more sense to create a world that maybe He held the keys to rather than being forced to magic his will into being? 

What you are describing is a god having to force his will upon what he supposedly created by having to resort to supernatural/magical processes to accomplish what wants done. Does this sound like someone who had knowledge of everything to come and the power to create or build in a way to accomplish what He wanted done without supernaturally manipulating it?

Because that does not at all sound like the god the Bible is describing to me.

I assume gods do wtf gods want. If that’s making miracle boats and miracling them full of animals so it can miracle up a storm, so be it.

I’m just pointing out that the final stop on this apologetic tour is to reduce the wholly miraculous flood narrative to a guy floating down a creek on the top of his chicken shed.

That the god you believe in? The god of the runaway coop and wholly natural explanations?

(June 20, 2023 at 10:39 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: Does our “farmer” actually realize that composition of mammal milk are species specific and not interchangeable?   And baby animals in most cases will not survive if attempted to be reared exclusively on milk of a different species?     Some mammals don’t even suckle from teats?

Also, what about animals that aren’t mammals?    You want Mrs Noah to suckle baby lizards too?      You know many lizard species are born with full compliment of sharp adult teeth, right?       Mrs Noah will be well prepared to wear many types of nipple jewelry at the same time if she sucked baby lizards.

Take note on how I graciously answer your questions even though they seem foolishly obvious to me. something a honest minded 5th grader could reason out for himself. Note I did not call you names nor do I mock your name or the premise of your question. And I could have really tried to embarrass you here. May this serve as a lesson in Live.. and let Live.. Meaning I showed you a little grace and mercy, so maybe next time when you think I said something foolish, (but maybe you just don't see all the angels YET) you show a little more respect, if you want me to graciously do the same.

That said,

 No one said ALL Mammals had to be babies. In fact when this came up the first couple of times I said 'Animals with specific dietary needs or have a need for their mothers to nurse/care for them could have just been on the ark in adult form.' (This doesn't just means mammals. Some birds need cared for for several weeks by their mothers, while other are fully functional a couple hours out of their eggs.

The only real reason putting baby MAMMALS on the Ark needed to happen is to reduce space requirements they need to house hundreds of thousands of types of fully mature animals, Their specific food, and to reduce the amount of food needed to be stored for massive mammals, and to eliminate the threat from predators. All of this goes away if you just load up babies who are compatible with the dairy milk provided by whatever dairy animals Noah used. Because this reduces the over burden of all the different kinds of food down to just hay. lots and lots of hay. But again that does not mean the dairy animals were the only ones loaded in their adult form.

Also I said dairy animals instead of cows specifically because with maybe 1/2 a dozen different dairy animals you can cover about 95% of all dietary milk requirements for all mammals. but even then some baby mammals need their mothers to care for them, not just access to compatible milk. 

Also I will point out again, that reptiles lay eggs. (no milk needed) Which means ALL reptiles, Birds, and insects who are not self starters (need the care of their mothers) could all be stored on the ark as eggs. This eliminates all dietary needs, special care (outside of the general care needed to store and transport eggs) or environmental issue they may need or they may create. Which again doesn't mean ALL have to be stored as eggs. like with the mammals there could have very well be a mixture of both.

(June 20, 2023 at 11:48 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: will need a bigger boat!

unless 2/3 of what was on the boat was in egg form.

(June 20, 2023 at 10:20 pm)Ravenshire Wrote:

(June 20, 2023 at 8:55 am)R-Farmer Wrote:

Look it up, chuckle-fuck. Unless your too busy protecting your willful ignorance. 

Your like the 4th person to bring this up.. That's what makes this funny to me. So I will just post my stock response

Take note on how I graciously answer your questions even though they seem foolishly obvious to me. something a honest minded 5th grader could reason out for himself. Note I did not call you names nor do I mock your name or the premise of your question. And I could have really tried to embarrass you here. May this serve as a lesson in Live.. and let Live.. Meaning I showed you a little grace and mercy, so maybe next time when you think I said something foolish, (but maybe you just don't see all the angels YET) you show a little more respect, if you want me to graciously do the same.

That said,

 No one said ALL Mammals had to be babies. In fact when this came up the first couple of times I said 'Animals with specific dietary needs or have a need for their mothers to nurse/care for them could have just been on the ark in adult form.' (This doesn't just means mammals. Some birds need cared for for several weeks by their mothers, while other are fully functional a couple hours out of their eggs.

The only real reason putting baby MAMMALS on the Ark needed to happen is to reduce space requirements they need to house hundreds of thousands of types of fully mature animals, Their specific food, and to reduce the amount of food needed to be stored for massive mammals, and to eliminate the threat from predators. All of this goes away if you just load up babies who are compatible with the dairy milk provided by whatever dairy animals Noah used. Because this reduces the over burden of all the different kinds of food down to just hay. lots and lots of hay. But again that does not mean the dairy animals were the only ones loaded in their adult form.

Also I said dairy animals instead of cows specifically because with maybe 1/2 a dozen different dairy animals you can cover about 95% of all dietary milk requirements for all mammals. but even then some baby mammals need their mothers to care for them, not just access to compatible milk. 

Also I will point out again, that reptiles lay eggs. (no milk needed) Which means ALL reptiles, Birds, and insects who are not self starters (need the care of their mothers) could all be stored on the ark as eggs. This eliminates all dietary needs, special care (outside of the general care needed to store and transport eggs) or environmental issue they may need or they may create. Which again doesn't mean ALL have to be stored as eggs. like with the mammals there could have very well be a mixture of both.

Yeah, but, who traveled all around the world to collect these eggs just to bring them back to the ark?

(June 21, 2023 at 10:29 am)Tomato Wrote: Yeah, but, who traveled all around the world to collect these eggs just to bring them back to the ark?

The Easter Bunny.

(June 21, 2023 at 8:10 am)h4ym4n Wrote: Not familiar with “AND their food”

Got the chapter and verse for that?

NIV, Gen 6:20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them.” So food or food animals were not to be counted in the 'pairs'

Quote:I was hoping you would bring up “'order to make it 7 pairs of clean animals and 2 pairs of unclean at the time they were loaded into the ark.”


That really changes how crowded and how much food would be needed, huh R?

Nope. Not if 98% of all birds, insects, and reptiles are in egg form, and 95% of all mammals are in baby form. Not to mention there are more unclean animals than clean animals.
This would mean no food needed for the insects birds or reptiles stored as eggs. And if the majority of the mammals are drinking milk then all one would need is lots of hay for the dairy animals.

Quote:What gymnastics maneuver is needed for this?

Maybe you haven't put it together yet but this whole putting eggs on the ark and baby mammals instead of full size adults is what makes it all work, as again it reduces the space needed to house the animals, the variety/quantity of food needed, any specialized environment requirement they may have or may create, and any threats from predatory or parasitic passengers on the ark.

(June 21, 2023 at 10:38 am)arewethereyet Wrote:

(June 21, 2023 at 10:29 am)Tomato Wrote: Yeah, but, who traveled all around the world to collect these eggs just to bring them back to the ark?

The Easter Bunny.

Maybe our gracious “farmer” here would care to learn that most reptile and bird eggs will not hatch if their orientations are disturbed more than a few days after being laid?, because the orientation of the embryo, yoke and air space would be settled shortly after the embryo begins to form and turning the egg over after that point over will kill the embryo?. 

So the damned bunny had better not hop while carrying the eggs, it had better walk very gingerly.  

NOw how long would a tiptoeing bunny with a basketful of lizard or bird eggs take to tip toe from the deserts of, well, just about anywhere, to Noah’s shipyard?     Did I mention if the embryos were not killed because they got bumped, the eggs would generally hatch within, oh from a couple of weeks to a couple of month?   

Btw, did I mention if one puts all of the eggs of some species of lizard together in one place to carry or incubate, the eggs will likely all hatch into babies or the same sex?    See, many lizard’s sex are not determined by genes but by the temperature at which the eggs are incubated.   put the the eggs together in one place, and if the eggs survive, the chances are the hatchlings will all emerge as the same sex.