(July 9, 2023 at 6:04 am)Loaded dice Wrote:

(July 8, 2023 at 7:49 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: Calling him an anti-Muslim proves nothing. 

Anti-Muslim implies they're biased against Islam, and therefore unreliable, got it ?

(July 8, 2023 at 7:49 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: Refute his history WITH FACTS or STFU.

The history of Early Islam is impossible to build if you exclude Muslims' own sirah (bc they were the closest people to Muhammad), people like Spencer reject all Islamic sources and further dismiss the independent evidence of his existence(testimonies of other documented figures outside of Arabia, whatever long-standing effects his military career had, etc.), no wonder that he concludes that Muhammad never existed. Spencer deals with evidence unfairly, that's why we shouldn't listen to him.

It's true that there is a bias risk if one accepts Islamic sources, but Muslims dealt with their history very carefully by analyzing which reports are reliable and which aren't. To sum it up for you : Muslims were naturally closer to Muhammad than non-Muslims, therefore they heard more from Muhammad directly than anybody else, therefore their account of Muhammad is first-hand. Once we get rid of the fabrications, we get a reliable history of early islam.

(July 8, 2023 at 7:49 pm)Bucky Ball Wrote: Telling someone they are out of their mind just shows how ignorant, weak, and unprepared you are.

You're telling us that Muhammad never existed, you're just saying that for shock value, and because you only listen to one guy -a far right islamophobic journalist, nobody really claims this anymore, including atheists. Very few scholars of Islam dare saying that Muhammad never existed -and even these few only assert that he may have never existed, they learned to qualify their statements, unlike you. It's a minority view that has been criticized by the specialists of the field.

No sweetie, ... I provided you with an entire page of references. So far here, you have done nothing but try to scare us with your afterlife crap. 
Stop lying. 
Provide the proof you were asked for, or STFU and get lost.

If Spencer is wrong, and you know ANYTHING about which you speak, you should be able easily to refute his evidence. So far, you have refuted absolutely nothing.
Biased or not, he provides evidence. If he is wrong, tell us EXACTLY where he is wrong and what EXACT corrections you have to his claims.
Waving your impotent hands around is not sufficient and is not evidence. You have not one shred of evidence of an afterlife.

Quote:Spencer deals with evidence unfairly, that's why we shouldn't listen to him.

A bullshit generalization ... you can't even provide any specifics or even one example.
You wouldn't be a fake would you. If you are a believer, you also are biased.
You are just as biased as Spencer. You don't know the culture, or have any evidence you are familiar with.
You know nothing of the history and development. You want to exclude "bias", yet you yourself meet the definition of biased.
At least Spence knows some FACTS. You know nothing.
There are no contemporary biographies of Mohammed, (the writers of the sirah were not even "close" to him), by hundreds of years and your *claim* that they examined history is nothing but YOUR bias.

(July 9, 2023 at 6:40 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote:

(July 9, 2023 at 5:44 am)h4ym4n Wrote: You’ll have all the evidence you’ll need AFTER you die.

Tell me why I should believe in your weird god and not one of the thousands of others? (Thor, Zeus, Odin, Neptune, Yahweh, Freyja etc.)
How do you know anything about what will happen after you die? (reading your book of myths is not knowing, it's just repeating what someone else thinks)

Keep denying all the evidence all around you. Look at a tree! Duh!

Can I get a big f’n amen now!

One of the most damning things in Islam is the attempt to both equate the Arab moon-god (Sin/Allah) with the Hebrew god Yahweh
and declare that the god of Abraham, Isaac and Moses was a monotheistic god. The Hebrews were not monotheists until very late in their history when the prophets attempted to suppress all the other gods they believed in. Yahweh had a wife/consort. Statues of Ashera have been found in Hebrew holy sites all over Israel, (Dan, Beth-el, Jerusalem). Of course the Arabs who cooked up Islam had no way of knowing that so they got it wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZY2eeozdo8

(July 8, 2023 at 5:45 pm)Loaded dice Wrote:

(July 8, 2023 at 5:34 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If I were to convert to Islam, would I have to supply my own sword for hand-chopping, or will one be provided?

Boru

You're obviously not being serious, that's a bad start

The bad start was this OP. You clearly don’t understand the difference between claims and evidence.

(July 9, 2023 at 9:04 am)h4ym4n Wrote:

(July 9, 2023 at 6:40 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: Tell me why I should believe in your weird god and not one of the thousands of others? (Thor, Zeus, Odin, Neptune, Yahweh, Freyja etc.)
How do you know anything about what will happen after you die? (reading your book of myths is not knowing, it's just repeating what someone else thinks)

Keep denying all the evidence all around you. Look at a tree! Duh!

Can I get a big f’n amen now!

Ok, I looked at a tree, how can I tell which one of the tousands of gods made it?

(July 8, 2023 at 5:18 pm)Loaded dice Wrote: because the Earth and everything else require an originator.

No reason to think that the originator is a god. It could be a simple singularity to say the least.

(July 9, 2023 at 11:04 am)Loaded dice Wrote: [quote pid='2153896' dateline='1688851129']
because the Earth and everything else require an originator.

Totally false. Actually they don't. At all. 

a. Order arises in this universe spontaneously, so nothing in this universe requires an "originator" and evolution and natural selection. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

b. 






However, even though it is true that no originator is necessary, it's also irrelevant in a way. 
You have absolutely no clue what the conditions are / were which would be external to this universe, what started anything or how that may have happened.  
You and everyone else has NOT ONE SINGLE piece of data about causation. 
All your assertions are without ANY foundation at all. Absolutely none. 
In addition, there are multiple examples in this universe where things exist and they have no cause. Virtual particles arise and end billions and billions of times a second, and have no cause.
Various atoms randomly decay into other atoms and remain stable and there is no predictor or known cause. Much of the Quantum world is probabilistic and refutes your "originator" crap.
Please spare us your scientific ignorance, as well as your ignorance of religions and history, and your inability to present even ONE rebuttal to ANY of Spencer's arguments.

How is it you know no basic science and no philosophy or cosmology, yet here you are, ignorantly preaching about something you clearly know nothing about ?
Are you saying that your god is the originator of the many pediatric cancers of which thousands of babies are dying from today ? What a wonderful being !! And just think, you worship this monster.

If is one thing I don't like about these people is that they don't see logical fallacies in their statements. A book, with no evendence of any of the things that happened in it is just a source of hearsay. Hell these books themselves said they were written based on people's "visions". Gita was written by a man who was given the word of god through dreams while he meditated, Quran, again, Ullah was made the masadaroti becuase some dude dreamed about it. It's funny how dreams and hallucinations are the soruce of these books. By that logic all fictional books really happened.

No dude, you did not provide a single evidence for your claim. You did not show me the results of a experiment that linked me and my existence to Ullah. Infact I can go to a DNA center and prove that my existence is a result of my parents. Where is the DNA test that shows Ullah created me? Where is the microscopic inspection and obeservation of all things in the world that links everything to Ullah? Where?

(July 9, 2023 at 11:04 am)Disagreeable Wrote: No reason to think that the originator is a god. It could be a simple singularity to say the least.

Exactly! These people are so satisfied with their Gods literally coming to existence on their own out of nowere but a singularity happening on it's own is too much for them to accept.

(July 9, 2023 at 11:02 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote:

(July 9, 2023 at 9:04 am)h4ym4n Wrote: Keep denying all the evidence all around you. Look at a tree! Duh!

Can I get a big f’n amen now!

Ok, I looked at a tree, how can I tell which one of the tousands of gods made it?

Great!

At least we’ve established thousands of gods can exist.

Have you hugged that tree?

Have you told the tree you are grateful for the creator making that tree to provide you with the oxygen you need to breathe to survive?


Have you reached down to the base of that tree and run your fingers through the rich soil that anyone of a thousand gods could create just for you ant that life sustaining tree?


Get on them knees and get them hands in front of you mouth and praise the one and only!!!!


Still waiting for my f’n amen!

I haven't been promoted to F. Best I can do is E'n amen.

But thanks for rubbing it in.