(July 14, 2023 at 11:01 am)Ravenshire Wrote:

(January 25, 2023 at 8:58 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: Yes. And That’s what the Swedish Government is saying. And they are right, you may be not liking a book, a book being a physical object you have the right to burn it. That’s their law.
 
But look at his face: This is a Hitler loving / Muslim hating psychopath. That’s what he is doing. So I reserve the right to call him a SoB. And that’s my freedom of expression.

Being a Muslim hater or a Hitler lover does not make a legal act, no matter how petty or spiteful, by that person a hate crime. Your free expression of your opinion has been noted, please respect the same right in others, thanks.

I did have my time of thinking on this subject. I think it’s understandable but useless to burn Swedish flags for that. They are a nation in which sacrilegious acts are still part of their freedom of expression. And I don’t really care who that guy is. But the appropriate response here should not be hatred. The Kuwaitis have found the appropriate answer: “There is a guy in Sweden who made it into a sport of burning copies of our holy book. So let’s give them more copies of the holy book in an effort to promote Islamic values of tolerance toward people who are different”
 
Also: Sacrilege is a right in most democratic countries. I am not in favor of images making fun of important religious figures as they do each week in magazines like Charlie Hebdo. But from a legal perspective, if you want to do that, you can do that. And from a spiritual view point: That’s your poison, not mine. So I don’t really care

(July 14, 2023 at 11:12 am)Ravenshire Wrote:

(January 26, 2023 at 2:09 pm)Leonardo17 Wrote: It’s just that it means something to some people. What do you call me if I do anything like that with an original disc from Elvis Presley? You will call me something right?
 
And it’s a cultural element too. I don’t believe in Voodoo. But I won’t do any of these things to a voodoo idol.

"The Lord of the Rings" has deep meaning to millions of people, yet no one holds that book to the particular standard to which all those holey books are held.

People being offended by the burning of a holey book are simply too fucking thin skinned.

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(January 26, 2023 at 2:15 pm)Leonardo17 Wrote: In a multicultural world it is always better to try not to hurt the feelings of other communities. I am rarely wrong about these things and here it is:
 
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/two...023-01-25/
 
Palestinian man, German train, Knife attack. 2 dead, several wounded.
 
Not everyone can have my stoic approach toward this Neo-Nazi man. Some will feel insulted. Some will even use such events to put fuel on the fire. So my position stands

And many will look at what was done, shrug their shoulders and ask, "So the fuck what?"

No, I mean, it’s still highly provocative. I’m a thinking / spiritual person. So you can believe me when I say “I really don’t care”.
 
Still: I think these guys should face some sort of consequence, meaning legal consequences. Because Muslim minorities in Europe are as numerous as Hispanic minorities in the US. All I’m saying is that when you tolerate these actions, many young, uneducated, hard working people who already feel like second class citizens will perhaps interpret this as “The system doesn’t like us anyway”.
 
Racism and social integration is a huge issue in most developed countries. And I am not really living there so even if this guy is not punished, the second best think would be to talk about these issues.
 
Political islamists are no different than Nazis. It’s their habit to use events like this in their propaganda. “Did you see how they desecrate our book? DO you see what they did in the temple mound? Have you seen how they make fun of our prophet?” etc. etc.
 
So it’s should be good to communicate the message “We are a weird nation who have extended freedom expression to the extend to sacrilegious act committed in public areas, this doesn’t mean we hate you, It’s our political culture and we are sorry about that” (or something that)

Another related event:
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-condem...14067.html
 

Also, this whole attitude of burning / throwing into the pit of whatever it is that you don’t like is reminding me of a movie scene I saw a few years ago :
 
https://youtu.be/qHXXW6WSnA8?t=4

It was always going to end in a call for blood, huh. Oh no, they hurt a book! Ours try coups. I wish they'd stayed home and burnt flags.

You're right that political islamists and white supremacists are similar, though, and one of those similarities is in having learned to coopt the language of victimization and liberal cause for their illiberal and victimizing politics.

A thought experiment;

I downloaded a digital copy of the Quran(pdf), made roughly a hundred copies in the same folder then deleted the folder on my PC.

Am I now equivalent to the nazis? What If instead made 1,000 copies or 10,000? If not why not?

(July 16, 2023 at 5:30 am)Leonardo17 Wrote:

(July 14, 2023 at 11:12 am)Ravenshire Wrote: "The Lord of the Rings" has deep meaning to millions of people, yet no one holds that book to the particular standard to which all those holey books are held.

People being offended by the burning of a holey book are simply too fucking thin skinned.

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And many will look at what was done, shrug their shoulders and ask, "So the fuck what?"

No, I mean, it’s still highly provocative. I’m a thinking / spiritual person. So you can believe me when I say “I really don’t care”.
 
Still: I think these guys should face some sort of consequence, meaning legal consequences. Because Muslim minorities in Europe are as numerous as Hispanic minorities in the US. All I’m saying is that when you tolerate these actions, many young, uneducated, hard working people who already feel like second class citizens will perhaps interpret this as “The system doesn’t like us anyway”.
 
Racism and social integration is a huge issue in most developed countries. And I am not really living there so even if this guy is not punished, the second best think would be to talk about these issues.
 
Political islamists are no different than Nazis. It’s their habit to use events like this in their propaganda. “Did you see how they desecrate our book? DO you see what they did in the temple mound? Have you seen how they make fun of our prophet?” etc. etc.
 
So it’s should be good to communicate the message “We are a weird nation who have extended freedom expression to the extend to sacrilegious act committed in public areas, this doesn’t mean we hate you, It’s our political culture and we are sorry about that” (or something that)

Another related event:
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-condem...14067.html
 

Yeah, you "really don’t care" so much that you had to make a thread about the incident. Then you "really don’t care" so much that you call for legal consequences when he broke no laws. Yeah, we can see that you "really don’t care."

The answer to speech you don't like is more speech, not less. Speak out against him, don't whine that the government won't silence him. It's better to let the bastards shout from the rooftops than whisper in the basements. Once they do cross the line and actually commit a crime, it's far easier to find the shouters than the whisperers.

And, no. No government should ever apologize for granting freedoms to all.

Quote:A thought experiment;

I downloaded a digital copy of the Quran(pdf), made roughly a hundred copies in the same folder then deleted the folder on my PC.

Am I now equivalent to the nazis? What If instead made 1,000 copies or 10,000? If not why not?

Deleting a digital copy of the Quran is not the same as burning a physical one in public as an act of protest.

(July 16, 2023 at 1:56 pm)Helios Wrote:

Quote:A thought experiment;

I downloaded a digital copy of the Quran(pdf), made roughly a hundred copies in the same folder then deleted the folder on my PC.

Am I now equivalent to the nazis? What If instead made 1,000 copies or 10,000? If not why not?

Deleting a digital copy of the Quran is not the same as burning a physical one in public as an act of protest.

How is it different?  I'm destroying them in protest.

(July 16, 2023 at 2:03 pm)Nay_Sayer Wrote:

(July 16, 2023 at 1:56 pm)Helios Wrote: Deleting a digital copy of the Quran is not the same as burning a physical one in public as an act of protest.

How is it different?  I'm destroying them in protest.

You are not in a public place setting something on fire with the specific purpose of being a xenophobic dick.

(July 16, 2023 at 7:03 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: ..................

Why do you have a vaginal/rectal torture device in your signature?