@Lek:

If you're serious about your turn, I'd like to recommend going to the link below (Karen Armstrong's audiobook The Great Transformation) and listen to the sample. It's about 10 minutes but it's a good short bit on the emphasis of the thinkers of the Axial Age, including Judaic.

Karen Armstrong | The Great Transformation (audiobook sample)

The whole thing isn't bad, either.

(July 17, 2023 at 5:05 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:

(July 17, 2023 at 4:44 pm)Lek Wrote: The truth is that I do love immigrants and LBGTQ individuals and everybody else, but have different ideas to help and better everyone in our society.

So you don't want to kill gays like the Bible commands? Or is it “Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin”? But what would you do if the sinner won't stop sinning no matter how much you "help" him?

SIN stands for Self Imposed Nonsense.

(July 18, 2023 at 11:31 am)uniongap Wrote:

(July 17, 2023 at 5:05 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: So you don't want to kill gays like the Bible commands? Or is it “Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin”? But what would you do if the sinner won't stop sinning no matter how much you "help" him?

SIN stands for Self Imposed Nonsense.

(July 18, 2023 at 11:31 am)uniongap Wrote:

(July 17, 2023 at 5:05 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote: So you don't want to kill gays like the Bible commands? Or is it “Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin”? But what would you do if the sinner won't stop sinning no matter how much you "help" him?

SIN stands for Self Imposed Nonsense.

except they are neither so kind as to only impose it on themselves,  nor very often so unhypocritical as to also impose on themselves.    they primarily contrive the bestial primitive nonsense in order to impose it on other to aggrandize themselves.

(July 18, 2023 at 2:55 am)Deesse23 Wrote:

(July 17, 2023 at 4:44 pm)Lek Wrote: The truth is that I do love immigrants and LBGTQ individuals and everybody else, but have different ideas to help and better everyone in our society.

Do you love them enough to grant them all the rights you and i have? Do you love them enough so that they should be treated equally to you and me before the law? Do you love them enough so that they should not be discriminated against?
Its not a rhetorical question, i just want to hold you accountable next time you say anytihng xenophobic or transphobic for example.

Yes. I do.

(July 18, 2023 at 4:17 am)emjay Wrote: This is just depressing; you can take your faux-compassion and shove it. The most compassionate thing a Christian could do as far as I'm concerned is quit meddling in other people's lives, and let each person, and each person alone, be responsible for their own 'sin' whether they believe in it or not. That would solve the problem.

I agree each person is responsible for their own sin, but don't think that solves any problems.

Because of long lag time I've been posting multiple times.

Ever since Dr. John Boswell (https://www.nytimes.com/1994/12/25/obitu...-dies.html )
published his book about the formal liturgical (religious) same-sex unions his research found in Medieval Europe,
there have been a number of scholars who have written on the subject. Among them are the Biblical scholars Dr. Richard Elliott Freidmann ("Who Wrote the Bible")
and his collaborator Dr. Shawna Dolansky. They pretty much destroyed the notion that the Bible disapproved of "homosexuality", and among the reasons they look at is the fact that the concept of sexual orientation (as such) did not arise in the history of human ideas until the late 19th Century when Psychology began to look at the question, and itself emerge as one on the sciences. Make no mistake, same sex activity was forbidden, but, the sexuality of humans was presumed to be that for ALL people of their birth gender. What the scholars found was that the laws against it were "power based" and since men were presumed to have and deserve more power than women, various acts which "feminize" a man were culturally unacceptable. More about that if anyone is interested. Science now knows that human sexual orientation is not a choice, and therefore cannot be a matter of morality. Human sexuality exists in a vast range of interests and behaviors, as we know from various studies.

There actually is in Hebrew history and Christian history, agreed to by the famous liberal 20th Century Christian writer (Paul Tillich, in "The Courage to Be") the correction of the Christian concept of "sin as disobedience" (as usually regurgitated by religionists) from the Garden Myth in Genesis. The first time I read the correction I was taking "Comparative Mythology" and were were assigned to read Martin Buber's "Good and Evil", (famous Jewish philosopher) who did a word by word examination of the text in part II of that same book. He demonstrated that the text revels the very same concepts (and it's probable source) ... the Babylonian creation myth which included their concept of "chaos vs order". Evil for them was about chaos, and not order. When Marduk slays Tiamat, the Dragon of Chaos, from chaos arises order. And THAT is the same concept the words in Genesis portray when the man and woman attempt to eat "of the tree of knowledge" of (both) good AND evil (at the same time). Attempting to *encompass* opposites ... which for humans is not possible. They have to decide. They have to act (according to the meaning of the texts, as Buber claims) in accordance with what they judge to be their real/ essential character. It's not about the gods, it's not about eating apples. It's about the Babylonian theme of chaos and order. Tillich agreed with Buber.

(July 18, 2023 at 12:27 pm)Lek Wrote:

(July 18, 2023 at 4:17 am)emjay Wrote: This is just depressing; you can take your faux-compassion and shove it. The most compassionate thing a Christian could do as far as I'm concerned is quit meddling in other people's lives, and let each person, and each person alone, be responsible for their own 'sin' whether they believe in it or not. That would solve the problem.

I agree each person is responsible for their own sin, but don't think that solves any problems.

Why not concern yourself with your sin, let others concern themselves with theirs, if they so believe, and let God be the judge? In your belief all will be held accountable to God anyway, so what's the problem with that?