(September 21, 2023 at 5:16 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(September 21, 2023 at 5:08 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: The point being that peace doesn't require humans, it only requires intelligent conscious agents.

Right. In other words, humans.

No.  Humans are a type of intelligent agents.  There could be, and in the future likely will be, others.

(September 21, 2023 at 5:18 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(September 21, 2023 at 5:15 am)Ahriman Wrote: I know humans (or most of them, anyway) don't naturally want peace. Even if they pretend to want peace, in their personal lives, they usually still want some kind of drama, in the background. But I think people can be taught to want a more complete peace.

Then why hasn't it happened? Large-scale violence seems to be so ingrained in us that it appears to be an intrinsic part of human nature. If we ever move past our fondness for war, we'll have become some other than human. Homo novus, perhaps.

Boru

It hasn't happened because the world was never ready for it, but it's coming.

(September 21, 2023 at 5:23 am)FrustratedFool Wrote:

(September 21, 2023 at 5:16 am)Ahriman Wrote: Right. In other words, humans.

No.  Humans are a type of intelligent agents.  There could be, and in the future likely will be, others.

If there were others, we would already know about them.

(September 21, 2023 at 5:26 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(September 21, 2023 at 5:23 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: No.  Humans are a type of intelligent agents.  There could be, and in the future likely will be, others.

If there were others, we would already know about them.

Aside from that being obviously false, a key word in my post was 'future'.

Humans aren't going to be around forever.  And, given current rates of tech, not even that many centuries hence, I expect.  Post-humans might achieve world peace.  I can't see humans managing such a feat.  Our primate brains don't seem to be really wired for it.

(September 21, 2023 at 5:42 am)FrustratedFool Wrote:

(September 21, 2023 at 5:26 am)Ahriman Wrote: If there were others, we would already know about them.

Aside from that being obviously false, a key word in my post was 'future'.

Humans aren't going to be around forever.  And, given current rates of tech, not even that many centuries hence, I expect.  Post-humans might achieve world peace.  I can't see humans managing such a feat.  Our primate brains don't seem to be really wired for it.

You don't know humans won't be around forever. We should plan for an eternal existence, which is, actually, what we've been doing the whole time we've been here. Don't be lazy and leave everything in the hands of "aliens" or "post-humans" or whatever else.

It is inconceivable to me that humans could just remain frozen at their current level of technological advancement and biological evolution and also remain in permanent existence.

As well as being highly implausible, it also seems a nightmare.

I can assure you that I am not lazy in either trying to build a better world for the near future, or for the far future. That is an irrelevance to this point.

(September 21, 2023 at 6:24 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: It is inconceivable to me that humans could just remain frozen at their current level of technological advancement and biological evolution and also remain in permanent existence.

As well as being highly implausible, it also seems a nightmare.

I can assure you that I am not lazy in either trying to build a better world for the near future, or for the far future.  That is an irrelevance to this point.

I've experienced something like a "frozen in time" state of being while sleep deprived and playing on my phone. It was thoroughly enjoyable. Nothing to worry about.

But it didn't last a million years.
And wasn't the whole species.
And wasn't what I was on about.

(September 21, 2023 at 6:37 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: But it didn't last a million years.
And wasn't the whole species.
And wasn't what I was on about.

Time becomes irrelevant at that point.

Again, that sounds a nightmare.

But should all humans be the only intelligent species in reality, and all become locked in a state of timeless unchanging existence that can never end, then yes, I guess we will have world peace.

I think that highly unlikely to ever happen, so I will not worry about it or base any actions on it.