There's a fundamental flaw in making any consequential theistic claim even if gods did exist.

Think about it. Imagine a god actually does exist and actually does have a shitlist. So what. It might actually be the case that an existent god would do terrible shit to us for arranging our lives or our laws in ways that work for us rather than for it - but this is not actually different from any other individual (or country) being willing to do terrible shit when some other person or some other nation arranges their own lives or laws in ways that work for them, but not that aggressor.

I know, I know "but you'll burn in hell and or be bombed to hell". Maybe so, and without litigating whether it's a smart choice to appease dangerous assholes to avoid that - I'll just point out that we tell them to go fuck themselves with some regularity. It might be a bad idea, by some metrics and according to some set of consequences, but we'll do it anyway.

So god is a leprechaun on crack?

I would still prefer we not confuse conceptual imaginations with reality.

It would be nice if we could - but even though gods aren't out there flitting around and doing stuff - their cracked followers are. Wherever god inevitably fails, they'll shore it up, no matter what it takes, no matter how shitty they have to be to get it done. Take the current moment as a case example.

God has failed to flood/fire/plague/earthquake all the homos and/or libtards (redundant!) - so gods children are taking up that baton. Trying to make life shitty in any way they can, and..if they're lucky, engaging in a little erasure. They're tired of waiting on their absentee father. On the darker end of that same issue, apocalyptic people now have access to apocalyptic weapons. It's only a matter of time.... I think believing in end of days scenarios ought to be a disqualifier for being in the same zipcode as end of days weapons. That would be an example of making laws that work for us - and sure, god might get pissy that we're persecuting all his folk with a restriction like that - but if he wants to blow up the world he can do it with his own shit - right?

To call back to the OP, good does exist, but gods never seem to be on it's side. Strange.

That is not god, as you have reasonably concurred. It is people confusing everything around them as god.

It may very well be. I'm entertaining the proposition so that we can elaborate on why it wouldn't matter even if it were true.

Theists tell us that their gods are assholes. Fine. So be it. That fact, if it is a fact, makes the purported fact of their existence moot. I'm also aware of lions and tigers and flesh eating bacteria and warlords of various persuasions. I'm not rushing out to do what would be good for them or what they want or what they say just because they exist - and there's absolutely no question that they exist.

That is the difference between me and you, for I happen to know god does not exist. It is a compartmentalized thought I can live with because I can simultaneously comprehend acknowledgment if evidence of god's existence was ever provided.

No difference there. I just don't think that the factual existence of any god would be meaningful on it's own. The answers to some questions really don't matter. A gods existence is one of them.

(September 23, 2023 at 2:12 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It may very well be.  I'm entertaining the proposition so that we can elaborate on why it wouldn't matter even if it were true.

Theists tell us that their gods are assholes.  Fine.  So be it.  That fact, if it is a fact, makes the purported fact of their existence moot.  I'm also aware of lions and tigers and flesh eating bacteria and warlords of various persuasions.  I'm not rushing out to do what would be good for them or what they want or what they say just because they exist - and there's absolutely no question that they exist.

I fully acknowledge that God is a complete and utter douchebag. I only believe in Him so that my afterlife won't suck.

Good for you, but doing that won't make your afterlife not suck by anyone's reckononing, it just makes you collateral damage. You'll fail in life, and fail in afterlife - and get both barrels for it.

Holy holy holy.

(September 23, 2023 at 2:21 pm)Ahriman Wrote:

(September 23, 2023 at 2:12 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It may very well be.  I'm entertaining the proposition so that we can elaborate on why it wouldn't matter even if it were true.

Theists tell us that their gods are assholes.  Fine.  So be it.  That fact, if it is a fact, makes the purported fact of their existence moot.  I'm also aware of lions and tigers and flesh eating bacteria and warlords of various persuasions.  I'm not rushing out to do what would be good for them or what they want or what they say just because they exist - and there's absolutely no question that they exist.

I fully acknowledge that God is a complete and utter douchebag. I only believe in Him so that my afterlife won't suck.

God: "I heard you called me a douchebag and you only believed in me so your afterlife wouldn't suck.  Now your afterlife will suck."