I've spent a few years in combat zones. The major desire I noted was one of "GET ME THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!!!" Men curse, women weeps, children just make funny noises and try to hide behind a stray dog or something.

On a less frenetic level a lot of people do enjoy conflict in the order of footy or football, as long as its vicarious.

(September 25, 2023 at 7:43 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I've spent a few years in combat zones. The major desire I noted was one of "GET ME THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!!!" Men curse, women weeps, children just make funny noises and try to hide behind a stray dog or something.

On a less frenetic level a lot of people do enjoy conflict in the order of footy or football, as long as its vicarious.

But do people fighting in combat zones feel they are alive, and that they are doing/did something meaningful?

Meaningful pleasurable experiences are the ideal, but I suspect that many will unconsciously drift towards or create meaningful negative/mixed experiences rather than have a total absence of meaning in their lives. Somewhat akin to how many prefer pain to boredom, and drama to peace.

(September 25, 2023 at 7:56 am)FrustratedFool Wrote:

(September 25, 2023 at 7:43 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I've spent a few years in combat zones. The major desire I noted was one of "GET ME THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!!!" Men curse, women weeps, children just make funny noises and try to hide behind a stray dog or something.

On a less frenetic level a lot of people do enjoy conflict in the order of footy or football, as long as its vicarious.

But do people fighting in combat zones feel they are alive, and that they are doing/did something meaningful?

Meaningful pleasurable experiences are the ideal, but I suspect that many will unconsciously drift towards or create meaningful negative/mixed experiences rather than have a total absence of meaning in their lives.  Somewhat akin to how many prefer pain to boredom, and drama to peace.

Some do, some don't. Everybody I killed only that one face.

The spectrum runs from "wildly excited and lovin' it" to "I can't get any lower, me buttons are in the way!"

(September 25, 2023 at 7:56 am)FrustratedFool Wrote:

(September 25, 2023 at 7:43 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: I've spent a few years in combat zones. The major desire I noted was one of "GET ME THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!!!" Men curse, women weeps, children just make funny noises and try to hide behind a stray dog or something.

On a less frenetic level a lot of people do enjoy conflict in the order of footy or football, as long as its vicarious.

But do people fighting in combat zones feel they are alive, and that they are doing/did something meaningful?

Meaningful pleasurable experiences are the ideal, but I suspect that many will unconsciously drift towards or create meaningful negative/mixed experiences rather than have a total absence of meaning in their lives.  Somewhat akin to how many prefer pain to boredom, and drama to peace.

I doubt it's even possible to experience something that is both meaningful and pleasurable at the same time, not without some kind of drug. It's one or the other, while sober.

@Gawdzilla Sama
Makes sense.

(September 25, 2023 at 8:13 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(September 25, 2023 at 7:56 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: But do people fighting in combat zones feel they are alive, and that they are doing/did something meaningful?

Meaningful pleasurable experiences are the ideal, but I suspect that many will unconsciously drift towards or create meaningful negative/mixed experiences rather than have a total absence of meaning in their lives.  Somewhat akin to how many prefer pain to boredom, and drama to peace.

I doubt it's even possible to experience something that is both meaningful and pleasurable at the same time, not without some kind of drug. It's one or the other, while sober.

Plenty of people report pleasurable meaningful experiences without drugs. Though drugs is a widely chosen method to such experiences, for sure.

(September 25, 2023 at 8:13 am)Ahriman Wrote: I doubt it's even possible to experience something that is both meaningful and pleasurable at the same time, not without some kind of drug. It's one or the other, while sober.

Bring in the moment helps.

(September 25, 2023 at 8:15 am)FrustratedFool Wrote:

(September 25, 2023 at 8:13 am)Ahriman Wrote: I doubt it's even possible to experience something that is both meaningful and pleasurable at the same time, not without some kind of drug. It's one or the other, while sober.

Plenty of people report pleasurable meaningful experiences without drugs. Though drugs is a widely chosen method to such experiences, for sure.

What experiences would those be? Can you name any?

Examples:

Religious ceremonies
Voluntary work
Artistic creation
Parenting events (like birth of child)
Scientific discovery/learning
Numinous experiences of nature
Music events

And so on.

(September 25, 2023 at 8:13 am)Ahriman Wrote: I doubt it's even possible to experience something that is both meaningful and pleasurable at the same time, not without some kind of drug. It's one or the other, while sober.

Why not?