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Are you the monster you want to be?
#1
Are you the monster you want to be?
I recently bowed out of a discussion, citing irritability as the reason my behavior had been out of sorts, and that I wanted to establish a more certain handle on my tone before proceeding further. While that is certainly true, and concern for my relationship with another member definitely motivated my response, that is not the entire story, either. In doing research for a signature line to use on another forum, I came across the following line from Nietzsche.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster."

It gave me some pause to consider my own behavior, both recently, as well as in light of the recent forum drama. I certainly do not want to back down in my responsibility as an ethical person to fight for the things that I believe in, even if that means at some times I become a monster in doing so. Excess in defense of virtue is no vice, they say. I'm not sure about that, but I wonder any more if I'm the monster that I want to be or whether being the monster has in some sense taken over from other virtues and behaviors that I might be neglecting. As a consequence, though I feel it somewhat undeserved, and the person doesn't seem particularly interested in honest debate anyway, I now find myself on someone's ignore list. Perhaps that was inevitable. Perhaps not. And my irritability concerning another newer member has left me antagonizing them somewhat unnecessarily. I don't know if I want to like that person or not, but I'd rather keep that chance open for the time being, rather than close it off through sheer laziness and habit. Slamming moronic twats like Drich? Yeah, I got no problem with that. Many times I'm perfectly fine with playing the monster. However, I'm beginning to wonder if erring on the side of caution might be more prudent, and if I have not inadvertently become someone whom I'm not sure that I want to be.

What about you? If you are, likewise, occasionally the monster, are you the monster that you want to be? Or am I simply making a tempest in a teapot?
[Image: Fenrir-sign.jpg]
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#2
RE: Are you the monster you want to be?
Nah, I hold back far too often.  Sometimes to be polite, sometimes to stay on this side of a ban, lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#3
RE: Are you the monster you want to be?
The sad truth about mud westling with pigs -- at some point you come to the realization that the pig is enjoying it.
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#4
RE: Are you the monster you want to be?
The monster often dreams it is me.
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#5
RE: Are you the monster you want to be?
Real monsters object to this mischaracterization.
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#6
RE: Are you the monster you want to be?
(December 18, 2018 at 2:14 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster."

"When you gaze long into the abyss... the abyss gazes into you." I love that quote. It's from Beyond Good and Evil... the epigrams chapter.

Quote:It gave me some pause to consider my own behavior, both recently, as well as in light of the recent forum drama.  I certainly do not want to back down in my responsibility as an ethical person to fight for the things that I believe in, even if that means at some times I become a monster in doing so.  Excess in defense of virtue is no vice, they say. I'm not sure about that, but I wonder any more if I'm the monster that I want to be or whether being the monster has in some sense taken over from other virtues and behaviors that I might be neglecting.

I would reject "an excess of virtue is no vice" in favor of "moderation in all things." I think your posts are incredibly thoughtful and fair-minded, Jor. One of your best "virtues" is an ability to examine an issue from multiple perspectives (or a completely neutral perspective). That leads to some incredibly clear discussions. You have a penchant for clarity, which is why I think you're an asset to the forum. During my vacation from AF, I visited quite a few forums whose discussions I thought would benefit from the input of someone like you.


Quote:Slamming moronic twats like Drich?  Yeah, I got no problem with that.

Yup. I don't see a problem with anyone's snark and ire so long as it is aimed properly. People who respect us and respect AF ought to be respected in return. Just because I've expressed grievances concerning the way some members were treated, doesn't mean I think nobody deserves such treatment.

I disagreed with the banning of Everena and Rik, precisely because they served a purpose. There are a plentitude of religious idiots and zealots in the world. Oftentimes, I think we atheists misdirect our anger toward anyone who is a theist, when (in the back of our mind) the ones we really hold in contempt are the idiots. Therefore, provided they keep their general trolliness contained, the staff might want to consider keep such folks around. After all, these guys hold themselves up as targets, are seemingly unphased by our insults, and I suspect they get something out of the exchanges... just like we do.

(Note: I'm not criticising staff decisions here... just describing a situation I think would be ideal. I don't expect staff decisions to satisfy my every whim or desire. But by the same token, if I have a desire, I feel like it's okay to make that desire known.)

Quote:What about you?  If you are, likewise, occasionally the monster, are you the monster that you want to be?

Sometimes I'm the monster I want to be. Other times I say things I regret. I tend to think the fairest way to handle things is to dispatch insults at those who themselves dispatch insults. When someone comes at me with a respectful attitude, I try to reciprocate. I often fail to hit that target, but that's what I aim for. A "one size fits all" way of approaching people just doesn't work.
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#7
RE: Are you the monster you want to be?
(December 18, 2018 at 2:14 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: I recently bowed out of a discussion, citing irritability as the reason my behavior had been out of sorts, and that I wanted to establish a more certain handle on my tone before proceeding further.  While that is certainly true, and concern for my relationship with another member definitely motivated my response, that is not the entire story, either.  In doing research for a signature line to use on another forum, I came across the following line from Nietzsche.  

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster."

It gave me some pause to consider my own behavior, both recently, as well as in light of the recent forum drama.  I certainly do not want to back down in my responsibility as an ethical person to fight for the things that I believe in, even if that means at some times I become a monster in doing so.  Excess in defense of virtue is no vice, they say.  I'm not sure about that, but I wonder any more if I'm the monster that I want to be or whether being the monster has in some sense taken over from other virtues and behaviors that I might be neglecting.  As a consequence, though I feel it somewhat undeserved, and the person doesn't seem particularly interested in honest debate anyway, I now find myself on someone's ignore list.  Perhaps that was inevitable.  Perhaps not.  And my irritability concerning another newer member has left me antagonizing them somewhat unnecessarily.  I don't know if I want to like that person or not, but I'd rather keep that chance open for the time being, rather than close it off through sheer laziness and habit.  Slamming moronic twats like Drich?  Yeah, I got no problem with that.  Many times I'm perfectly fine with playing the monster.  However, I'm beginning to wonder if erring on the side of caution might be more prudent, and if I have not inadvertently become someone whom I'm not sure that I want to be.

What about you?  If you are, likewise, occasionally the monster, are you the monster that you want to be?  Or am I simply making a tempest in a teapot?

I recent found myself watching batman and saw a similar signature line.. Either you die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Which is as much BS as Nietzsche quote.

As the two only speak to those without goals or discipline. Maybe for someone who is here on their own sense of righteousness (A self righteousness of sorts) can fall into the pitfall of being the monster, but that is only because people like that are in continually compromising their 'morality.' Meaning people like you are always justifying whatever it is you do for the greater good. In other words You will never step over the line because you will ultimately will come up with a reason to be over last years line. And on and on you will go till you can not deny you are in fact the 'monster' who you pretend to be fighting.

How you care for and respect your most adversarial opponent is most telling in the direction you are going or who you already are! If I am an example of where you can suspend all morality and civility just to "slam me" because I don't have the pedigree you deem necessary to have a personal opinion or to speak to facts as I see them, literally means Then you already are what you feign becoming. Seriously what Fascists will not allow someone else's thoughts go unchallenged. Who demands of themselves to personally attack someone for sharing their life with you all? More to the point how is that not monstrous behavior?

As hot as some of our arguments have been, even now Post the "have a nice day" of the last thread post. I do not hold you in any sort of contempt. I do not hate you I do not have any special rules concerning you. I just tire of the ad hoc nonsense. Even so each question you or anyone else can and do ask is treated as a stand alone episode. last fight we had has no malice carry over to this discussion which is why I can offer an truthful open and honest opinion even on the heels of the last blow up. 

If you are worried about becoming the monster have a set of prime directives and simply do not exceed those mandates. learn to walk away let others have the last word and most importantly get over yourself and the fascist idea of your ideology can be the only one people are allowed to hold and have. understand you are not batman and you would make a worse Nietzsche as he became or people woke up to the fact he was crazy..

like it or not I have shown to be far more disciplined and cordial to you despite you taking the gloves off and hammering me with some of your best shots... The win or loss here is not who bests one or the other in conversation but who here among us at the end of the day will indeed become the monster you are trying to defeat. Me walking away me allowing you the last word in so many posts me showing restraint and starting over with a clean slate each time you ask another question shows me to NOT be the monster you pretend I am/The monster you allow yourself to become inorder to properly 'slam me.'

You want to treat the none ass holes of this site fairly (people not like me) then learn to regulate yourself with the person you hate the most. maintain balance and control. set parameters and do not go too far beyond them. Lest you be dragged off by your own monster!
Poop
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#8
RE: Are you the monster you want to be?
I don't hate you Drich. How many times do I have to say that before it will sink into that thick skull of yours?

Side question. Have you actually read Nietzsche?
[Image: Fenrir-sign.jpg]
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#9
RE: Are you the monster you want to be?
I grew up with a monster. My father.
After unravelling him, I promised myself to never ever be like him.

The price I pay is ultra diplomacy and avoid needless confrontation with everyone irl.
Drama for the sake of drama ... No thanks.
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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#10
RE: Are you the monster you want to be?
I'm just as monstrous as I need to be in any given situation.

Boru
‘Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.’ Ralph Waldo Emerson
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