It's certainly a strange new world that we inhabit, one that I doubt even the writers of The Matrix could have envisaged (though it does make me think of the surreal game Borderlands for some reason ).

One of the few films that presents real world OS, based loosely on a real OS and their love for a fairground ride:

OK, I'll give it a look... probably.

I think that at least some people may find the notion of loving an object impossible because love, as opposed to an infatuation or obsession or stalking, has a component of reciprocity. If we zero that out then we all have experience of "loving" an object, even illusory ones - such as some version of ourselves that we would admire and respect and want to be. The production of experience and emotion being local, there's nothing stopping a person from feeling it even in the absence of any object. That kind of love, airquotes or not, just takes one person. People love their cars, their favorite baseball teams, a certain patch of ground, etc.

Most people don't fuck them - but love and sexuality are often disconnected or, to put it kindly, at odds with each other.

(November 1, 2023 at 8:57 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: I think that at least some people may find the notion of loving an object impossible because love, as opposed to an infatuation or obsession or stalking, has a component of reciprocity.  If we zero that out then we all have experience of "loving" an object, even illusory ones - such as some version of ourselves that we would admire and respect and want to be.  The production of experience and emotion being local, there's nothing stopping a person from feeling it even in the absence of any object.  That kind of love, airquotes or not, just takes one person.  People love their cars, their favorite baseball teams, a certain patch of ground, etc.

Yeah, that's true.....I would very much like to jump into the timeline where I was a respected dude who got all the girls.

Building a multi dimensional transit device would probably solve that all by itself. You'd still be you, underneath it all, and so the ladies who flocked your way would be yet another example of loving an object even when there were a real person present. Conversely, the only timeline in which you are respected and loved by all the ladies is one in which you are not...well...you.

Psuedo-reciprocity is all that seems to be required to generate the chemical brain state we call the emotion of love. Illusions are sufficient.

People can experience the same love emotion they have for their spouses, for example, in their dreams for dream characters, or during hallucinations, or in religious interactions with their deity or whatever. I have felt intense love in dreams and during moments of religious ecstasy, and it is similar in quality (though different in practical outworking) to the love I've felt for human lovers, friends and family.

If it was revealed to me that my child was an automaton, a P-zombie or simulation, and had never been conscious, the love I have had for them wouldn't have been any less than others would have had for their children even though there never would never have been any real reciprocity. And I would continue to feel that emotion subsequently (I mean, I already beleive all humans lack freewill and are conscious organic robots).

So yes, love as a bare emotion doesn't require anything beyond ourselves.

I love the city where I was born, and where I lived for most of my life. I was raised by the streets, so to speak.

I don't know if I'd call it the same love. There are, obviously, things that a reciprocal human relationship can offer that are not present in any relationship with a couch - but to be fair, alot of human relationships are probably no different in practice than two people being in love with couches.

(November 1, 2023 at 9:23 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: Psuedo-reciprocity is all that seems to be required to generate the chemical brain state we call the emotion of love.  Illusions are sufficient.

People can experience the same love emotion they have for their spouses, for example, in their dreams for dream characters, or during hallucinations, or in religious interactions with their deity or whatever.  I have felt intense love in dreams and during moments of religious ecstasy, and it is similar in quality (though different in practical outworking) to the love I've felt for human lovers, friends and family.

If it was revealed to me that my child was an automaton, a P-zombie or simulation, and had never been conscious, the love I have had for them wouldn't have been any less than others would have had for their children even though there never would never have been any real reciprocity. And I would continue to feel that emotion subsequently (I mean, I already beleive all humans lack freewill and are conscious organic robots).

So yes, love as a bare emotion doesn't require anything beyond ourselves.

Well humans are free, for now. There are people who want to change that. Will love (in any form) be a relevant thing if humans no longer have free will?