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RE: Theology and Sociology
November 24, 2023 at 11:45 pm
(November 24, 2023 at 10:24 pm)SimpleCaveman Wrote: (November 24, 2023 at 7:32 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Of course sociology is much more than religious beliefs - I don’t think anyone can sensibly dispute that. But it seems difficult (if not impossible) to study a society (sociology) without taking religion into account. To do so, it’s not only needful to study what people believe (religion), but why they believe it (theology).
I’m not saying that theology is the most important part of sociology, or even a major part. But I do think it’s a vital part - attempting to understand a society without considering why it believes what it believes does a disservice to both. Yep. Not disagreeing, Boru. Seems like the question left is how much of Theology is “why they believe”. Do you think that “why they believe” is all of Theology or a portion? I would say it's a small part of Theology.
Theology is the attempt to understand the nature of the Divine. That seems to be the chief way to determining why people hold particular religious beliefs.
Boru
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RE: Theology and Sociology
November 24, 2023 at 11:53 pm
Starting with the assumption that there is a "divine." 
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RE: Theology and Sociology
November 25, 2023 at 12:39 am
(This post was last modified: November 25, 2023 at 12:50 am by The Grand Nudger.)
When we wonder what could create all of the religion and theology we see, we need look no further than human beings - which are quite a bit more meat than spirit. One of the many reasons that using religious studies and theology interchangeably is a bad idea is that religious beliefs need not be...and most are not...about gods. All of them, though, from a sociologists POV anyway, are the product of human communities - and understanding those communities would be crucial to understanding their beliefs. Practical, religious, theological - what have you. It's been noted since at least the time of the greeks and probably earlier if we allow for eastern traditions....that gods tend to have a hell of alot in common with the people who worship them. In the historical development of written theology this is apparent in various struggles between gods and their tribes of people. Where the idea of a god being defeated was taken for granted because why not, people can be defeated.
I was interested in a comment of yours about that, SimpleCaveman. The idea that the greeks (anyone really) "got pretty far" with respect to developing their theology. How would we know? Is there a particular end point so we can tell who gets further than someone else. What is the metric? Are we sure that the arrow of progress flows the same way as the arrow of time? That we have better ideas about gods now..than then - and if then, perhaps gods do have weaknesses, perhaps gods can be defeated, perhaps...well...you know the drill.
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RE: Theology and Sociology
November 25, 2023 at 6:27 am
(This post was last modified: November 25, 2023 at 6:28 am by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
(November 24, 2023 at 11:53 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Starting with the assumption that there is a "divine."
Of course.
Boru
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RE: Theology and Sociology
November 25, 2023 at 9:29 am
(November 25, 2023 at 6:27 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (November 24, 2023 at 11:53 pm)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Starting with the assumption that there is a "divine."
Of course.
Boru
Or at least some divinity. 
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RE: Theology and Sociology
November 25, 2023 at 10:14 am
(November 24, 2023 at 10:24 pm)SimpleCaveman Wrote: (November 24, 2023 at 7:32 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Of course sociology is much more than religious beliefs - I don’t think anyone can sensibly dispute that. But it seems difficult (if not impossible) to study a society (sociology) without taking religion into account. To do so, it’s not only needful to study what people believe (religion), but why they believe it (theology).
I’m not saying that theology is the most important part of sociology, or even a major part. But I do think it’s a vital part - attempting to understand a society without considering why it believes what it believes does a disservice to both. Yep. Not disagreeing, Boru. Seems like the question left is how much of Theology is “why they believe”. Do you think that “why they believe” is all of Theology or a portion? I would say it's a small part of Theology.
I think that 'why' falls under psychology and/or neuroscience. So many diverse/detached cultures have created similar supernatural belief systems that there has to something that they all had in common. That would be the human mind.
https://www.americanscientist.org/articl...pernatural
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RE: Theology and Sociology
November 25, 2023 at 11:10 am
(November 24, 2023 at 11:45 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Theology is the attempt to understand the nature of the Divine. That seems to be the chief way to determining why people hold particular religious beliefs. Hmm, I’ve not thought of Theology this way. Let me ‘talk’ it out?
I’ll use the simplistic example I gave earlier, deducing that God was outside and different from the universe, and therefore spirit. Coming up with that deduction is practicing Theology.
Then, by looking at the reasoning that people have for that deduction, we can see why they believe that. Is that what you mean?
If so, then I agree.
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RE: Theology and Sociology
November 25, 2023 at 11:15 am
(November 25, 2023 at 11:10 am)SimpleCaveman Wrote: (November 24, 2023 at 11:45 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Theology is the attempt to understand the nature of the Divine. That seems to be the chief way to determining why people hold particular religious beliefs. Hmm, I’ve not thought of Theology this way. Let me ‘talk’ it out?
I’ll use the simplistic example I gave earlier, deducing that God was outside and different from the universe, and therefore spirit. Coming up with that deduction is practicing Theology.
Then, by looking at the reasoning that people have for that deduction, we can see why they believe that. Is that what you mean?
If so, then I agree.
Fair as far as it goes, but limited. There are plenty of theological views which hold that god(s) are not ‘outside and different from the universe’ but are immanently part and parcel of the universe.
The grand thing about any theology is that it doesn’t have to be true, just consistent. 
Boru
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RE: Theology and Sociology
November 25, 2023 at 11:19 am
Hi Angrboda,
Good to meet you.
(November 24, 2023 at 9:02 pm)Angrboda Wrote: Recording of Professor Longhair playing Tipitina from Rock ‘N’ Roll Gumbo Good tunes. Thanks! Not heard it before. Adding to the playlist.
Pax et bonum
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RE: Theology and Sociology
November 25, 2023 at 11:23 am
(November 25, 2023 at 11:15 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Fair as far as it goes, but limited. There are plenty of theological views which hold that god(s) are not ‘outside and different from the universe’ but are immanently part and parcel of the universe. Sure, sure. I’m not holding that up as High Theology or anything like that. Just want to understand what you meant.
(November 25, 2023 at 11:15 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: The grand thing about any theology is that it doesn’t have to be true, just consistent. :-) That’s fair.
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