(December 5, 2023 at 9:02 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: Not much to understand about that, tbh.  Do you think a father should say no when someone asks them to murder their child?

Well in my experience - jesus said "no".

(December 5, 2023 at 9:02 am)FrustratedFool Wrote:   Seems a low empathy move not conducive to the flourishing of civilisation and therefore not of benefit to yourself or others.  Bad precedent to set, child sacrifice at the behest of disembodied voices.

agreed

I find both in the bible - the man i met and not the man i met.

(December 5, 2023 at 9:09 am)Confused-by-christianity Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 8:56 am)Belacqua Wrote: I think this is important. People want to treat the Bible as journalism, or an instruction manual. It makes more sense as a challenge and a puzzle. 

If I were an omnipotent deity that's the way I'd write it. Ha!

I dont understand all of it.  

i search for that person i met one night - 

i read the bible looking for him, 

i do find him about in the world.

i try to leave his presence where ever i go.

I picture Jesus much as you do. Sort of as the answer to the question of What would a person be like if he always did the correct moral thing? How would we behave if we actually loved each other? 

Though I've never had the kind of revelatory experience you have, so for me it's all literary and aesthetic. But it's still important.

I remember something Herbert McCabe said: "If you don't love you're dead, and if you do, they'll kill you."

Show me one piece of evidence for jebus in this world without using the buybull. (No, I feel him doesn't count)
Show me, like I can show you the Doppler effect without a science book.

Why is it that everywhere on the planet, it is known that hydrogen is the lightest, most abundant element that there is, yet nowhere is it known that a god (of any type) exists.

It is almost as all the gods ever mentioned by hoomans are just made up.

@Confused-by-christianity

I'm not sure what you mean by Jesus said No. Firstly, because the issue is whether or not Abraham should have said no (and you haven't given a straight response to that), and secondly because Jesus was a willing human sacrifice to a deity.

It's interesting you say that in the bible you meet and not meet the Jesus of your religious experience. It seems you judge the scriptural text by the light of your own understanding. You are the moral judge, in that sense.

(December 5, 2023 at 9:25 am)Belacqua Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 9:09 am)Confused-by-christianity Wrote: I dont understand all of it.  

i search for that person i met one night - 

i read the bible looking for him, 

i do find him about in the world.

i try to leave his presence where ever i go.

I picture Jesus much as you do. Sort of as the answer to the question of What would a person be like if he always did the correct moral thing? How would we behave if we actually loved each other? 

Though I've never had the kind of revelatory experience you have, so for me it's all literary and aesthetic. But it's still important.

I remember something Herbert McCabe said: "If you don't love you're dead, and if you do, they'll kill you."

Doesn't this presume that there is a correct moral thing, and that it can be known?  

And loving each other can lead to terrible behaviours, as the road to hell is paved with good intentions. And too much empathy can lead to paralysis and ineffective choices.

I understand the appeal of the sentimental aesthetic christ-myth, but the usage of it as a moral exemplar is more harm than good, I feel.

(December 5, 2023 at 9:11 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: What made you think you'd find more about him in the bible?

i knew the bible talked about him.  his life, death, subsequent people tried to carry on his work (doing a good or bad job of it, but trying i guess).

I see his attributes in other places too

two places are ...
mother holding a baby - making eye contact.
a father who is so tender and patient with his little boy

(December 5, 2023 at 9:25 am)Belacqua Wrote: Though I've never had the kind of revelatory experience you have, ...

You will - im sure of it.

(December 5, 2023 at 9:35 am)Confused-by-christianity Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 9:11 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: What made you think you'd find more about him in the bible?

i knew the bible talked about him.  his life, death, subsequent people tried to carry on his work (doing a good or bad job of it, but trying i guess).

I see his attributes in other places too

two places are ...
mother holding a baby - making eye contact.
a father who is so tender and patient with his little boy

Many places talk of Jesus.  There's the Jesus of the bible, the Jesus of Christian theolgoies and various denominations, the Jesus of the gnostics, the Jesus of Islam, of the JWs, of the Mormons, of various New Age teachings, and so on.

If you had to describe the character of this spiritual Jesus you encountered, how would you describe him?

(December 5, 2023 at 9:35 am)Confused-by-christianity Wrote:

(December 5, 2023 at 9:11 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: What made you think you'd find more about him in the bible?

i knew the bible talked about him.  his life, death, subsequent people tried to carry on his work (doing a good or bad job of it, but trying i guess).

I see his attributes in other places too

two places are ...
mother holding a baby - making eye contact.
a father who is so tender and patient with his little boy

You may slap that Jesus-label onto anything, but that only dilutes its meaning. Sooner or later you get to "god is love" ... but I know love without believing in your mess of a deity. I have been that father you romanticize. No gods required.

(December 5, 2023 at 9:28 am)no one Wrote: Show me one piece of evidence for jebus in this world without using the buybull. (No, I feel him doesn't count)
Show me, like I can show you the Doppler effect without a science book.

Why is it that everywhere on the planet, it is known that hydrogen is the lightest, most abundant element that there is, yet nowhere is it known that a god (of any type) exists.

It is almost as all the gods ever mentioned by hoomans are just made up.

I cant prove it.

i can pass on an experience.  

jesus was kind to me, so i can pass on kindness to others ... 
it moves across people through demonstration, 

the job of a christian, as i see it, is to pass christ along through demonstration.