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RE: Palestine
December 3, 2023 at 1:49 pm
(This post was last modified: December 3, 2023 at 1:49 pm by Pat Mustard.)
(November 30, 2023 at 3:37 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: (November 29, 2023 at 3:07 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: The popular palestinian authorities were secular...and more secular than isreal......it's just that the ruling isreali regime decided that this..did not help them. So they starved the secularists and fed the islamists, while promoting the theocratic authoritarian elements in their own government and populace.
Still sure that isreal..instead of palestine... is your preferred option, because secular?
Yes. At the current time, regardless of whatever happened in the past, Palestine would be Islamist. Therefore, secular Israel is better than Islamist Gaza.
You honestly think Israel is secular? The current Israel that is controlled by far-right fundamentalist jews who are busy killing anybody who is non-jewish in the occupied lands of Palestine? The Israel that explicitly states in its constitution that it's a jewish only state?
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RE: Palestine
December 3, 2023 at 2:39 pm
Whether Israel is more or less secular than radical Islamists miss the point. The point is the ideology of the Jewish extremists are not as alienated from the interests of the developed world, and are not as closely tied to an ideology of restoring past theocratic conquests at the expense of the developed world, so are therefore far less unpalatable for pragmatic reasons.
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RE: Palestine
December 3, 2023 at 3:15 pm
(This post was last modified: December 3, 2023 at 3:16 pm by Deesse23.)
(December 3, 2023 at 2:39 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: The point is the ideology of the Jewish extremists are not as alienated from the interests of the developed world, and are not as closely tied to an ideology of restoring past theocratic conquests at the expense of the developed world, so are therefore far less unpalatable for pragmatic reasons. Ultraorthodox Jews may not have conquest of foreign lands in mind. They may not be genocidal, ever
But
That that does not mean they are not dangerous to their own society, and it's surrounding countries.
Unemployment rate amongst ultraorthodox Jewish men is around 50%, because they prefer studying the Torah to having a.job. that's why they also don't care much about education in general. They leave earning money to their wifes. 50% of UO Jews in Israel are living in poverty. Yet they have 7 children on average. They don't care about financial well being either (similar to education).
I think people who don't care about education, like being poor, while having a lot of kids, is not what should be considered to be harmless. I also don't think this attitude aligns with the interests of the "developed world".
It's a danger to Israel and to the entire area of the levant.
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RE: Palestine
December 4, 2023 at 4:41 am
(December 3, 2023 at 1:49 pm)GUBU Wrote: (November 30, 2023 at 3:37 am)FrustratedFool Wrote: Yes. At the current time, regardless of whatever happened in the past, Palestine would be Islamist. Therefore, secular Israel is better than Islamist Gaza.
You honestly think Israel is secular? The current Israel that is controlled by far-right fundamentalist jews who are busy killing anybody who is non-jewish in the occupied lands of Palestine? The Israel that explicitly states in its constitution that it's a jewish only state?
Secular in comparison, yes. I mean technically the UK isn't secular either, but is in practice. Israel is fairly Western/ democratic/ secular/ liberal. Given the ME alternatives, it's better to have it than not.
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RE: Palestine
December 4, 2023 at 4:43 am
(December 3, 2023 at 3:15 pm)Deesse23 Wrote: (December 3, 2023 at 2:39 pm)Anomalocaris Wrote: The point is the ideology of the Jewish extremists are not as alienated from the interests of the developed world, and are not as closely tied to an ideology of restoring past theocratic conquests at the expense of the developed world, so are therefore far less unpalatable for pragmatic reasons. Ultraorthodox Jews may not have conquest of foreign lands in mind. They may not be genocidal, ever
But
That that does not mean they are not dangerous to their own society, and it's surrounding countries.
Unemployment rate amongst ultraorthodox Jewish men is around 50%, because they prefer studying the Torah to having a.job. that's why they also don't care much about education in general. They leave earning money to their wifes. 50% of UO Jews in Israel are living in poverty. Yet they have 7 children on average. They don't care about financial well being either (similar to education).
I think people who don't care about education, like being poor, while having a lot of kids, is not what should be considered to be harmless. I also don't think this attitude aligns with the interests of the "developed world".
It's a danger to Israel and to the entire area of the levant.
Yes, all religions suck. But the choice is between evils, and some are worse than others.
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RE: Palestine
December 5, 2023 at 10:19 am
I don’t think we still have time to fight “wars of religion” or “wars of territory” at this time. While a lot of “blah blah blah” is still going on in the UAE right now the Cedars of Lebanon are disappearing because of soaring temperatures due to climate change:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/leb...r-AA1l0U8q
So it’s an issue of pure pragmatism. There is not going to be anything left for anyone “Between the Tigris and the Euphrates”.
And this goes to everyone. Reportedly, the “Emir” who is leading the COP28 has even said that “We would return to the stone age if we gave up fossil fuels for good”.
So we have to make a U-turn and we have to make it now. 
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RE: Palestine
December 5, 2023 at 10:41 am
I think that expresses the reality of an oil barons existence well enough. They, personally, wouldn't have shit if it weren't for oil - and they know it.
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RE: Palestine
December 10, 2023 at 7:37 pm
Bibi is exasperated with how little international support he's getting:
Evidently, he hasn't figured out that, even if he is fighting a genocidal group like Hamas, using that as an excuse to commit crimes against humanity tends to not endear you to other developed nations.
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RE: Palestine
December 11, 2023 at 5:30 pm
(December 10, 2023 at 7:37 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: Bibi is exasperated with how little international support he's getting:
Evidently, he hasn't figured out that, even if he is fighting a genocidal group like Hamas, using that as an excuse to commit crimes against humanity tends to not endear you to other developed nations.
Well, when you send in your soldiers with einsatzgruppen style orders, Bibi, what do you expect?
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RE: Palestine
December 18, 2023 at 11:14 pm
Pro-Palestinian protestors broke into Penn train station in New York and are occupying it.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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