Meyers-Briggs is pseudoscientific nonsense.

Boru

(January 12, 2024 at 11:48 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Meyers-Briggs is pseudoscientific nonsense.

Boru

Much like those tests retailers would have potential employers take, to see what kind of employee they would be or if they were hireable. Not sure if they still use those tests, left that field ages ago.

I recall from sociology class that those tests tend to be rather accurate. Of course, most people lie when answering the questions. Myself included.

(January 12, 2024 at 11:42 am)Foxaèr Wrote: Cannot quite remember, but I think that I was, maybe still am, an INTP.

We had to do this test at college... I can't remember exactly what I was either, but I know I'm an innie too

(January 12, 2024 at 10:17 am)h4ym4n Wrote: Anyone what INTJ means?

Insufferable Nitwit and Total Jerkoff

(January 12, 2024 at 11:55 am)Foxaèr Wrote:

(January 12, 2024 at 11:48 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Meyers-Briggs is pseudoscientific nonsense.

Boru

Much like those tests retailers would have potential employers take, to see what kind of employee they would be or if they were hireable. Not sure if they still use those tests, left that field ages ago.

I recall from sociology class that those tests tend to be rather accurate. Of course, most people lie when answering the questions. Myself included.

It’s the equivalent of those astrology experiment that sociology classes sometimes conduct, where students are given a phony horoscope telling them what a wonderful person they are. Unsurprisingly, a majority of the students agree with what the ‘horoscope’ tells them.

I think it’s also worth remembering that the test was devised by a woman with a degree in agriculture, and her daughter who studied political science. Not a psychologist to be seen.

Boru

(January 10, 2024 at 3:32 am)Belacqua Wrote:

(January 9, 2024 at 1:37 pm)Authari Wrote: Buddhism is neat like that where you can just apply the philosophy without any deistic preferences.

Recently, just by chance, I was reading about a guy called Thomas Keating, who started what seems to be a Christianized version of Buddhist meditation. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centering_prayer

Apparently there are also meditative practices in East Orthodox monasteries that closely resemble this, though I don't know if there's direct Buddhist influence there. 

Are these the kind of introspective practices you're thinking of here? 

I do think that making a habit of such meditation would be a really healthy thing to do. Unfortunately when I tried I was really bad at it. 

And as we can see, in the neoliberal bourgeois culture we have now, such practices can only be accepted if they are shown to have utilitarian therapeutic value. And then I think they have become something different from what they started out as.

If I may continue this conversation, since Authari is no longer here?

I'd be curious to see what sort of 'object' those people identified as the object of meditation in that case, because in my, albeit and admittedly limited, understanding of Buddhist meditation, there are basically two primary goals (though granted, there may be others above my understanding). One is to observe mental phenomena coming and going, with a view to reinforcing and validating the central idea of the impermanence of all phenomena, and another is to practice non-attachment to that phenomena, ie letting it be without seeking its change... mindfulness of the present moment, looking neither to the past or the future, seeking neither for it to continue nor to cease.

The point I'm making being that, since the central argument of Buddhism is that the root of all suffering is clinging/attachment to what is ultimately all impermanent phenomena, and its meditation practices seek to illustrate that point, it's, at least for me, difficult to see what role a God could play in this scenario, or how the notion of God would be implemented, let's say, in meditation. I assume that in theistic versions of Buddhism, the argument may well be that everything is impermanent except God, but that's obviously a bridge too far for me, and in any case the curiosity remains for me that basically if you are observing phenomena in your mind, you have to identify it... or at least focus on it or loosely be aware of it... so I would be curious to see what they choose to focus on as representing God or God's presence in that case.

If I had to guess I'd be

Prospecting (P)
Observant (S)
Thinking (T)
Assertive (A)

(January 12, 2024 at 2:32 pm)emjay Wrote:

(January 10, 2024 at 3:32 am)Belacqua Wrote: Recently, just by chance, I was reading about a guy called Thomas Keating, who started what seems to be a Christianized version of Buddhist meditation. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centering_prayer

Apparently there are also meditative practices in East Orthodox monasteries that closely resemble this, though I don't know if there's direct Buddhist influence there. 

Are these the kind of introspective practices you're thinking of here? 

I do think that making a habit of such meditation would be a really healthy thing to do. Unfortunately when I tried I was really bad at it. 

And as we can see, in the neoliberal bourgeois culture we have now, such practices can only be accepted if they are shown to have utilitarian therapeutic value. And then I think they have become something different from what they started out as.

If I may continue this conversation, since Authari is no longer here?

I'd be curious to see what sort of 'object' those people identified as the object of meditation in that case, because in my, albeit and admittedly limited, understanding of Buddhist meditation, there are basically two primary goals (though granted, there may be others above my understanding). One is to observe mental phenomena coming and going, with a view to reinforcing and validating the central idea of the impermanence of all phenomena, and another is to practice non-attachment to that phenomena, ie letting it be without seeking its change... mindfulness of the present moment, looking neither to the past or the future, seeking neither for it to continue nor to cease.

The point I'm making being that, since the central argument of Buddhism is that the root of all suffering is clinging/attachment to what is ultimately all impermanent phenomena, and its meditation practices seek to illustrate that point, it's, at least for me, difficult to see what role a God could play in this scenario, or how the notion of God would be implemented, let's say, in meditation. I assume that in theistic versions of Buddhism, the argument may well be that everything is impermanent except God, but that's obviously a bridge too far for me, and in any case the curiosity remains for me that basically if you are observing phenomena in your mind, you have to identify it... or at least focus on it or loosely be aware of it... so I would be curious to see what they choose to focus on as representing God or God's presence in that case.

There tend to be as many theories about what you're trying to accomplish with meditation and why as there are Buddhists who meditate. I hesitate to add mine to the pile, but it seems obvious that through repetition, meditation is supposed to either equip the mind with a skill that it ordinarily does poorly, or as a topical to the ordinary thought patterns that exist outside of the meditative state. There are supposedly studies that document improvement along certain metrics correlated with things like stress and anxiety, but even if valid, it's not clear what aspect of meditation is responsible for said effects.

As far as the role that God can play in meditation, while Buddhist metaphysics do not link the virtues of practice to any divinity, both Hindu meditation (such as Bahkti yoga) and Christian mysticism do involve a god in the process of the meditation and not uncommonly involve foci derived from their respective traditions (such as meditations on passages from the Bhagavad Gita).

I suspect that I'm PEST.

(January 12, 2024 at 3:26 pm)Angrboda Wrote:

(January 12, 2024 at 2:32 pm)emjay Wrote: If I may continue this conversation, since Authari is no longer here?

I'd be curious to see what sort of 'object' those people identified as the object of meditation in that case, because in my, albeit and admittedly limited, understanding of Buddhist meditation, there are basically two primary goals (though granted, there may be others above my understanding). One is to observe mental phenomena coming and going, with a view to reinforcing and validating the central idea of the impermanence of all phenomena, and another is to practice non-attachment to that phenomena, ie letting it be without seeking its change... mindfulness of the present moment, looking neither to the past or the future, seeking neither for it to continue nor to cease.

The point I'm making being that, since the central argument of Buddhism is that the root of all suffering is clinging/attachment to what is ultimately all impermanent phenomena, and its meditation practices seek to illustrate that point, it's, at least for me, difficult to see what role a God could play in this scenario, or how the notion of God would be implemented, let's say, in meditation. I assume that in theistic versions of Buddhism, the argument may well be that everything is impermanent except God, but that's obviously a bridge too far for me, and in any case the curiosity remains for me that basically if you are observing phenomena in your mind, you have to identify it... or at least focus on it or loosely be aware of it... so I would be curious to see what they choose to focus on as representing God or God's presence in that case.

There tend to be as many theories about what you're trying to accomplish with meditation and why as there are Buddhists who meditate.  I hesitate to add mine to the pile, but it seems obvious that through repetition, meditation is supposed to either equip the mind with a skill that it ordinarily does poorly, or as a topical to the ordinary thought patterns that exist outside of the meditative state.  There are supposedly studies that document improvement along certain metrics correlated with things like stress and anxiety, but even if valid, it's not clear what aspect of meditation is responsible for said effects.

As far as the role that God can play in meditation, while Buddhist metaphysics do not link the virtues of practice to any divinity, both Hindu meditation (such as Bahkti yoga) and Christian mysticism do involve a god in the process of the meditation and not uncommonly involve foci derived from their respective traditions (such as meditations on passages from the Bhagavad Gita).

My own thoughts on it come primarily from my favourite book on the subject, What The Buddha Taught by Walpola Sri Rahula, but I accept that that's just one interpretation, and further, accept TGN's arguments that those views may be 'retconned', ie a modern interpretation, which may or may not accurately reflect what was originally intended by the Buddha, but nonetheless, that's the form and interpretation of Buddhism that speaks to me personally, but each to their own.

I agree that through practice, the skills become stronger, and am vaguely aware of studies about meditation essentially rewiring the brain, which I personally put down to the fact that it is not a usual/natural practice, to focus in this way on mental phenomena, so I am not surprised if repetition of that causes new and strange connections in the brain to be established. And by 'topical', do you mean a supplement to the ordinary thought patterns that exist outside of the meditative state? I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with that turn of phrase.

As to the reduction of stress and anxiety, I haven't personally looked into any studies on that, so neither can I say much about what aspects of meditation might be responsible for that, but I just know that in general, in my own case, I have less stress and anxiety when I'm in a Buddhist frame of mind, than not, but I'd say that's more likely an indirect result... of thinking about the whole philosophy... rather than, or at least in addition to, a direct result of meditation, which is not something I do that often, but which this thread has made me interested to try again... and I really should read that book again.

As for the role of God in meditation, are you talking about the notion of mantras? Ie repeating some phrase or whatever as an object of meditation? If so, I understand where you're coming from, but have never tried that particular type of meditation myself.