(June 7, 2024 at 1:08 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: 2LOT means that no matter what we look to for sources of energy, there will be waste left behind which we must deal with. And the waste will be more than the energy, in the long run.

Solar cells and Wind turbines are not that difficult to recycle. On the other hand, nuclear waste has to be stored in underground facilities hoping that civilizations of the future will know what to do with them.
 
Also: Space travel is a farce. Yes, we must go on with space exploration because it is already opening new horizon for us. But No, we are not going to colonize other planets just yet. Why? Because our bodies are made to live on this earth. We are not made to withstand the conditions of space for prolonged periods of time. Our bodies are aging faster in space. So we will be able to send astronauts to the Moon or even Mars within a decade or so. But for longer journeys with higher numbers of travelers, we simply are not there yet
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/scientists-pr...21691.html

Solar cells are not easily disposed of. There are heavy metals that are quite difficult to extract without creating an even bigger mess. Progress has been made, but many junk solar panels in the US are treated as HAZMAT.

unclean

(June 12, 2024 at 10:43 am)Leonardo17 Wrote: Solar cells and Wind turbines are not that difficult to recycle.

The generators and blades cannot be economically recycled in wind turbines, and the blades in particular will occupy a lot of landfill space at the end of their 25-year useful life.

I agree. But the technology is available (and lucrative too):
 
https://youtu.be/b8eYFpzNBa8?t=42
 
The truth about recycling in general is that most governments don’t really care. Many governments are simply exporting plastic rather than to invest into recycling centers. And that’s a problem of mentality. This lady here isn’t even producing plastic waste anymore:
 
https://youtu.be/ZT0uqEPzbd0
 

---

 
If we were to rethink our consumption habits, for example if we had places to refill most if not all of our packages (I’m thinking shampoo, cleaning supplies, coffee, sunscreen – basically everything that comes in a bottle of some sort - ). We could decrease the production of plastic very rapidly.
 

---

 
But when we talk about nuclear, there is no solution in sight yet. And the whole production and management of nuclear plants and nuclear waste is very carbon-producing. But it still beats typical fossil fuel energies.
 
The same dilemma is present in E-Vehicles. But still, when you do the math, they are also better than thermal cars (within 5 to 10 years of usage if I am correct).

That's an emissions comparison, and yeah, in general. EVs are a nightmare for infrastructure and landfills particularly. The amount of unprocessed pack waste set to just show up all at once in 20 years or so, and then increase from there, doesn't actually have a solution at present. It's the next plastic. While we wait to see if we can solve that problem we'll need to beef up all our roads and bridges to handle the heavier vehicles, the cement industry being in the top2 of global emissions contributors.

So solutions are coming even though they seem to come a little slowly. So you may take a look at this new Tower Style solar energy plant:
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/engineering-c...00941.html
 
Why would we not build thousands of power plants like this (out of bricks and mirrors basically) in all of the arid / desert areas that are simply sitting there?
 
The Germans have even investments in African countries where green hydrogen is produced out of solar plants like this and then brought back home to power anything that cannot be powered by electrical energy (heavy industries, ships or even airplanes).

Birds die from these- Streamers

(June 19, 2024 at 11:33 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: That's an emissions comparison, and yeah, in general.  EVs are a nightmare for infrastructure and landfills particularly.  The amount of unprocessed pack waste set to just show up all at once in 20 years or so, and then increase from there, doesn't actually have a solution at present.  It's the next plastic.  While we wait to see if we can solve that problem we'll need to beef up all our roads and bridges to handle the heavier vehicles, the cement industry being in the top2 of global emissions contributors.

Citations from reliable sources?

A simple google search will yield tons of sources for the different problems involved in the mountain of ev waste. A comparison of ev and ice vehicles will show you which one weighs more. It's the battery (again). A tesla model x ev weighs about as much as a ford f250 ice. They are, infamously, too heavy to legally drive on some bridges already. For the concrete industry's stats I'm sure, like pack waste, you can easily find any number of sources with a quick google search.

Pick any of them -you- think are credible.

Want to hear more? Ev production at present depends on a part of the world sometimes referred to as "the sacrificial belt". This due to the godbsmackingly terrible damage being done to the environment and people because of the importance of evs to the future of the rest of us (or, if you're a cynic, because of ev's importance to the bank accounts of the guys fucking those places and people over). I'll go out on a limb and assume you think that you're dealing with a climate dissenter...asking for "credible" sources..but you're not. I'm highlighting issues we absolutely will have to solve because we absolutely do need to go full electric...and the point isn't to get off oil for getting off oils own sake..but so that things might be better.

(July 10, 2024 at 10:28 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: .and the point isn't to get off oil for getting off oils own sake..but so that things might be better.

Someone once said
"The Stone Age didn’t end for lack of stone, and the oil age will end long before the world runs out of oil."

Battery technology has been improving, but it's unlikely to ever overcome the energy density of petrol, so the weight issue will plague EVs for a long long time... perhaps being solved when motor efficiency improves too.

People have the issue of range anxiety, mostly due to the perceived lack of public charging points and the long time it takes to charge batteries, when compared with the ubiquitous petrol stations and the 2 minutes it takes to fill up a tank. Fix these two issues and EV adoption will skyrocket.

There are those who enjoy the feeling of driving an ICE car, but for most of us who just want to get from point A to B they're just clucky in comparison with EVs. gearbox? clutch? lubricant? radiator?