To be honest, I don't even know how to discredit nor dismiss my family relative's delusional beliefs without offend them.

Quote:“Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the ‘transcendent’ and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don’t be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you.”

Who said this quote?

She's veiling it as an agreement, but it's really an attempt to preach to me the righteousness of her "one true God". Honestly, I am having difficulty even understanding it. I thought she came off a bit condescending when she did her "explaining" to me about how her god and prayer "works".

Feel free to use whatever you want from my post, and you dont have to reference me either...use want you want...my gift to you.
=========

Quote:Leigh, you know I like to answer these things privately because I dont ever want to appear to be ridiculing you in any way because I am not but others might think so and I don't want to even take the chance on that. So hear goes...

I appreciate you carrying this conversation on in private, as I wish to keep good relations with my relatives and friends.

Quote:Since you are an atheist and that is your right and I am certainly not going to use this platform to try and convince you otherwise.

I also appreciate you pointing this out, and that I also support your right to believe pretty much whatever you want, nor will I use this conversation as a platform to convince you otherwise as well.

Quote:I do however think that I should explain to you a little bit about God and prayer and the gifts and talents that God gives us. All good gifts, in this case Tim Tebow's gift is a great football player, should all be used to further the Kingdom of God.

I am afraid that I must disagree with this position for several reasons. The first and obvious reason is that Tebow's football skills were no gift. A simple google search will reveal all of the work that Tebow did to earn his skills throughout highschool and college. A gift is something that is given freely with no strings attached and no work needed to receive it. Tebows football skills were honed by him at an early age and perfected in college. He worked to make himself better. This is not a gift by any means of the definition.

The second reason is that you are suggesting that everyone use their talent (gifts) to further the kingdom of God (to advertise Christianity). I resepct your beliefs, but I must outright refuse your demand that I should advertise Christianity for all of the talents and skills I have worked hard to acheive and better myself in society with.

Quote:The 'platform' that God has given to Tebow, is the football field. Tebow has a desire in his heart to give God thanks and glory because he knows that God is the one that has given him his talents, he also has a responsibility as a Christian to show the world that he recognizes God as his Lord and King.

Jesus said it best about prayer when he said in Matt 6:6 "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." Jesus also used this verse to emphasis an earlier verse in which he said Matt 6:5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.". Jesus very much was warning the flock of people who would take advantage of public prayer to influence the community, that they may be wolves in sheeps clothing.

In reality you dont know anything about Tim Tebow's true religious beliefs except for what he allows the media to know about. For all you know Tim is using religion as a stepping stone to more popularity and fame. I am not saying that tim Tebow is anything like this. I am saying that you dont know, nor do I.

Quote:All of us are given platforms to spread the good news of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ some are just more public than others. Unfortunately many Christians fail and are not bold in their worship of the one true God.

And as I pointed out in Jesus' own words, some Christians may be praying in secret as their savior has requested of them in the book of Matthew out of respect for Christ's wishes. Some Christians may consider Christianity too sacred to be printed on money, or used during football game touchdowns. Some Christians just may even be upset at such blatant displays of their sacred belief and consider it as an insult.

Quote:Tebow isn't and that's why everybody is talking about him.

Im sure that Fox news not being able to go an hour without mentioning Tebow and his religious beliefs contribute greatly to the sudden discussion of "goal line prayer".

Quote:It should be such the norm that the talk would be about the Christian that doesn't give glory to God.

Why? To put it bluntly it was Tebows well honed football skills that gave his team the touchdown, not his Christianity. I feel strongly about atheism. Would you not think it strange that if I made a touchdown for a football game (If I were to play such a game, LOL) and then claimed that my atheism gave me strength to do such a thing, and then made some kind of "thanks" to atheism in the goal zone? Sure you would. It was my football skills that made the field goal, not my religious beliefs.

Quote:There are other 'professed' Christians standing on that field with Tebow... my question is why aren't they bold enough to kneel in praise and glory of the mighty God they claim to believe in.

What is with the 'professed' in brackets? Are you suggesting that someone is not a true Christian unless they advertise Christianity every moment of their lives? Besides, 85% of America is Christian in some sort or fashion. I would hardly call him praying after a touchdown as being "bold". Bold would be getting interviewed on Fox news and telling everyone on television that you are an atheist. Bold is a Christian preaching on the streets of Saudi Arabia where they face harsh penalties for doing so. Bold is a Muslim woman leaving Islam for Christianity or even atheism. Praying to Jesus in a society dominated by Christians is not "bold". It is "normal".

Quote:The media and the most americans readily accept muslims worshiping in their workplace and schools when Christians are not even allowed to speak the name of Jesus in many of these places... even you can surely see the injustice in that.

...and nobody freaked out when Muslims wanted to build a community center on ground zero? It didnt become a media frenzy of hate and ignorance about basic American laws? America accepts Muslims praying becase our first amendment gives them that freedom. A freedom that was not originally a gift, but won hard through fighting and bloodshed. Christians can rent school buildings and hold their church services in them, and they do so often. Christians are allowed to create youth groups in school, yet then turn around and try to stop atheist groups or homosexual groups from enjoying that same freedom. Christians are allowed to pray silently any time in school as long as they are not disrupting class. They can pray out loud before and after class in the hallway as long as they are not disrupting progress. They CANNOT pray in an official maner in front of a captive audience. The rules are very fair, and the freedoms outweigh the restrictions 100 fold.

I fucking love you, rev!!!

(December 29, 2011 at 3:50 pm)aleialoura Wrote: She's veiling it as an agreement, but it's really an attempt to preach to me the righteousness of her "one true God". Honestly, I am having difficulty even understanding it. I thought she came off a bit condescending when she did her "explaining" to me about how her god and prayer "works".

Everyone likes to believe that they are correct, especially in their beliefs. What would make you any better for responding in an argumentative way? If you know that you cannot change her position, then why strain the relationship further. She respects you enough to not preach to you. You posted on her facebook status (If i'm understanding what you said), which she responded to.

I'm surely not saying she's correct, simply that she has a right to her belief.

It's always a minefield giving advice on family and other personal matters. However I'm going to have to side with Perhaps on this one. Obviously you know more about the relationship with your aunt than we possibly could, so only you know whether it's worth getting into an argument over this. Sometimes it's better to concede a battle and all that.

A few years ago I did a temporary stint in an office (this was some while after leaving the Civil Service) and one of my colleagues was a lovely little West Indian lady; bubbly personality, smile for everybody, lovely to be around. She did have one little foible, though, which I've never encountered before or since: she would talk to Jesus. I don't mean she'd pray and have the usual 'personal relationship' that we often hear tell about - I mean she would be talking about ordinary things (shopping, the weather, EastEnders or whatever) then she'd suddenly break off, look thoughtful for a few moments, then nod and say "Yes, ok Lord" or something similar and tell me about what Jesus had just told her to do or say. In every other respect she was as rational and ordinary as anyone I've ever met, but she was such a sweet little thing it would have been like shooting a puppy to get into a debate about it.

If you prefer to make light of it, try showing your aunt this and see what she says:

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/635643...all-player

(sorry I couldn't find it on YouTube for you.)

(December 29, 2011 at 4:02 pm)aleialoura Wrote: I fucking love you, rev!!!

No problem sweety



Ive had a decade of practice with this sort of stuff. I have converted two of my family members for Christianity to atheism, and two other family members now have the courage to step out and admit they are atheist because I cleared the path to make it easier for them.

Trust me when I say that every argument for atheism can make a difference...ONLY if you pick and chose your fights well.

(December 29, 2011 at 2:58 pm)aleialoura Wrote: The drama is over this picture that she shared on bookface:



I usually am very good about holding my tongue on facebook, but this irked the shit out of me, so I posted a comment that said:

I Wrote:I don't see a problem with either, but I would hope that if there is a god, he has more important things to do than help someone win a football game. I, personally, think that public prayer is not a big deal. Pray on if you want. I'm more concerned with people doing harmful things in public. Prayer is benign.

A few minutes later I received this:

Crazy Evangelical Aunt Wrote:Leigh, you know I like to answer these things privately because I dont ever want to appear to be ridiculing you in any way because I am not but others might think so and I don't want to even take the chance on that. So hear goes...
Since you are an atheist and that is your right and I am certainly not going to use this platform to try and convince you otherwise. I do however think that I should explain to you a little bit about God and prayer and the gifts and talents that God gives us. All good gifts, in this case Tim Tebow's gift is a great football player, should all be used to further the Kingdom of God. The 'platform' that God has given to Tebow, is the football field. Tebow has a desire in his heart to give God thanks and glory because he knows that God is the one that has given him his talents, he also has a responsibility as a Christian to show the world that he recognizes God as his Lord and King. All of us are given platforms to spread the good news of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ some are just more public than others. Unfortunately many Christians fail and are not bold in their worship of the one true God. Tebow isn't and that's why everybody is talking about him. It should be such the norm that the talk would be about the Christian that doesn't give glory to God. There are other 'professed' Christians standing on that field with Tebow... my question is why aren't they bold enough to kneel in praise and glory of the mighty God they claim to believe in.

The media and the most americans readily accept muslims worshiping in their workplace and schools when Christians are not even allowed to speak the name of Jesus in many of these places... even you can surely see the injustice in that.

I don't want to come off as arrogant, antagonistic, or rude... so basically, I don't know what to say.



What would you say?

I'd say "meaningless waffle", because that is exactly what she posted.

(December 29, 2011 at 3:50 pm)aleialoura Wrote: She's veiling it as an agreement, but it's really an attempt to preach to me the righteousness of her "one true God". Honestly, I am having difficulty even understanding it. I thought she came off a bit condescending when she did her "explaining" to me about how her god and prayer "works".

Like many of the religious type, she's a halfwit.

Read this and lol. Note the Liberal Atheist and Religious and Conservative.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/201...132655.htm

Who has denied Tebow the opportunity to pray at a football game? I seem to remember seeing him praying the last time I watched the Broncos. Who has denied anyone the right to pray at a private sporting event? There is a public prayer offered on national TV at the beginning of every NASCAR race. I don’t remember any lawsuits or the police dragging the preacher off after any of those.

What I do remember though is a Muslim being fired from a job at Dell right here in Nashville because management wouldn’t arrange his breaks around prayer time. I also remember Christians protesting the construction of a mosque. Not at ground zero in New York but down the road from here in Murfreesboro. Why shouldn’t they be allowed to build a house of worship on land they own?