Yes I have. My concern is more about those around him. They've now had many years to learn about this demented, easily manipulated moron. So I'm far more concerned of what those people will do. They all desperately crave massive power, and will do virtually anything to get it, and who knows what will happen after they do. (Which they will if he's elected.) Now they all know they need only to praise him endlessly, and they'll get to do whatever they like.

But my bigger concern is that there is a good reason so many support Trump, and I think it has little to do with Trump himself. They are, as am I, thoroughly disgusted with the status quo. We are all at the mercy of the rich and powerful, and we all know it. They're willing to do literally anything to tear down the system and start over. I can't say I much blame them for that. Democrats aren't much different than Republicans. Perhaps their only "advantage" is being able to con their own followers that they care. Which they don't. (Except for a select few, who have zero chance of getting elected to the presidency, let alone accomplishing anything meaningful if they did.) Far too much control already exists with the rich and powerful, and there is no way to get it back without tearing down the system. They know and control the system, inside and out. They literally run the country, not the politicians or the government. Let alone the people.

(October 28, 2024 at 12:25 am)Devout-Humanist Wrote: Yes I have. My concern is more about those around him. They've now had many years to learn about this demented, easily manipulated moron. So I'm far more concerned of what those people will do. They all desperately crave massive power, and will do virtually anything to get it, and who knows what will happen after they do. (Which they will if he's elected.) Now they all know they need only to praise him endlessly, and they'll get to do whatever they like.

But my bigger concern is that there is a good reason so many support Trump, and I think it has little to do with Trump himself. They are, as am I, thoroughly disgusted with the status quo. We are all at the mercy of the rich and powerful, and we all know it. They're willing to do literally anything to tear down the system and start over. I can't say I much blame them for that. Democrats aren't much different than Republicans. Perhaps their only "advantage" is being able to con their own followers that they care. Which they don't. (Except for a select few, who have zero chance of getting elected to the presidency, let alone accomplishing anything meaningful if they did.) Far too much control already exists with the rich and powerful, and there is no way to get it back without tearing down the system. They know and control the system, inside and out. They literally run the country, not the politicians or the government. Let alone the people.

How is being at the mercy of the rich and powerful going to be solved by supporting one of the rich and powerful? Sheesh.

Boru

(October 28, 2024 at 12:25 am)Devout-Humanist Wrote: But my bigger concern is that there is a good reason so many support Trump, and I think it has little to do with Trump himself. They are, as am I, thoroughly disgusted with the status quo. We are all at the mercy of the rich and powerful, and we all know it. They're willing to do literally anything to tear down the system and start over. I can't say I much blame them for that. Democrats aren't much different than Republicans. Perhaps their only "advantage" is being able to con their own followers that they care. Which they don't. (Except for a select few, who have zero chance of getting elected to the presidency, let alone accomplishing anything meaningful if they did.) Far too much control already exists with the rich and powerful, and there is no way to get it back without tearing down the system. They know and control the system, inside and out. They literally run the country, not the politicians or the government. Let alone the people.

This is really good, I think. We need more of this kind of thing. We need to understand what Trump voters want if we're ever going to get them someone good to vote for. 

I remember reading that lots of Trump voters in the earlier election would happily have voted for Bernie Sanders, since he represented (truly or not) another choice against the status quo. Many of them didn't actively want fascism, they wanted real change for the better. 

If Trump wins there will certainly be work to do. We're all aware of who will be vulnerable and what the Dems will need to focus on. Women's rights, trans rights, humane treatment of immigrants. These things will need urgent attention.

But to me the big issue is the extreme polarization this election has induced, and the tendency people have to dehumanize and demonize the other side. 

It does no good to say that 50% of people in the country are merely idiots, fascists, brainless hicks. Which means, of course, that our team is good and their team is bad to the point of being irredeemable. Believe it or not, there are well-meaning and sincere people who have made a calculated decision that voting for the Dems won't help them, and voting for (what they take to be) an anti-establishment poke in the eye is preferable. 

I suspect that the thinking people among Trump voters will be disappointed. He is not going to change much. Not going to save the country from evil corporations or Big Government. But they may be satisfied that they didn't allow an obvious puppet of the status quo (i.e. Harris) from getting into office. 

People who see Trump as a savior are obviously dreaming. But people who see him as possibly less bad can be good people and sincere, and we do ourselves no good by merely calling them deplorable over and over. They are correct, in fact, that the government currently doesn't work for average Americans, although they are not correct in thinking that Trump will help them much.

(October 28, 2024 at 3:03 am)Belacqua Wrote:

(October 28, 2024 at 12:25 am)Devout-Humanist Wrote: But my bigger concern is that there is a good reason so many support Trump, and I think it has little to do with Trump himself. They are, as am I, thoroughly disgusted with the status quo. We are all at the mercy of the rich and powerful, and we all know it. They're willing to do literally anything to tear down the system and start over. I can't say I much blame them for that. Democrats aren't much different than Republicans. Perhaps their only "advantage" is being able to con their own followers that they care. Which they don't. (Except for a select few, who have zero chance of getting elected to the presidency, let alone accomplishing anything meaningful if they did.) Far too much control already exists with the rich and powerful, and there is no way to get it back without tearing down the system. They know and control the system, inside and out. They literally run the country, not the politicians or the government. Let alone the people.

This is really good, I think. We need more of this kind of thing. We need to understand what Trump voters want if we're ever going to get them someone good to vote for. 

I remember reading that lots of Trump voters in the earlier election would happily have voted for Bernie Sanders, since he represented (truly or not) another choice against the status quo. Many of them didn't actively want fascism, they wanted real change for the better. 

If Trump wins there will certainly be work to do. We're all aware of who will be vulnerable and what the Dems will need to focus on. Women's rights, trans rights, humane treatment of immigrants. These things will need urgent attention.

But to me the big issue is the extreme polarization this election has induced, and the tendency people have to dehumanize and demonize the other side. 

It does no good to say that 50% of people in the country are merely idiots, fascists, brainless hicks. Which means, of course, that our team is good and their team is bad to the point of being irredeemable. Believe it or not, there are well-meaning and sincere people who have made a calculated decision that voting for the Dems won't help them, and voting for (what they take to be) an anti-establishment poke in the eye is preferable. 

I suspect that the thinking people among Trump voters will be disappointed. He is not going to change much. Not going to save the country from evil corporations or Big Government. But they may be satisfied that they didn't allow an obvious puppet of the status quo (i.e. Harris) from getting into office. 

People who see Trump as a savior are obviously dreaming. But people who see him as possibly less bad can be good people and sincere, and we do ourselves no good by merely calling them deplorable over and over. They are correct, in fact, that the government currently doesn't work for average Americans, although they are not correct in thinking that Trump will help them much.

This post is a stunning display of ignorance. It is also why Trump said, 'I love the poorly educated.'

Boru

(October 28, 2024 at 12:25 am)Devout-Humanist Wrote: Democrats aren't much different than Republicans.

There is a small, very small difference:

They dont rally behind a wannabe fascist, who badmouths minorities and threatens to discriminate against them, who panders to fundamentalist religious groups, which is unconstitutional, who doesnt give a shit about accountability of his future office (presidents can do what they want, its not illegal, as long as its an official action), someone who openly worships foreign dictators and flatters enemies of the USA and threatens the allies of the USA. He is also corrupt as fuck and a terrible grifter.

Small, difference i know, but i think its worth considering.

If Trump wins I have decided that America needs to be humanely euthanised.

Hate and insults are easy.

Understanding the thoughts of people unlike yourself may take more time.

Here is a video explaining why some thinking people support Trump:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99uL8KYxBI4&t=1s

Most politicians annoy me but trump is the only one who scared me.

(October 28, 2024 at 4:12 am)Belacqua Wrote: Hate and insults are easy.

Understanding the thoughts of people unlike yourself may take more time.

Here is a video explaining why some thinking people support Trump:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99uL8KYxBI4&t=1s

(Bold mine)

Doesn't make 'em wrong, though, does it?

Boru

Should been a trump bumper sticker.