Godschild, from a theological standpoint I will agree that Jesus made things easier through bringing in the New Covenant. However what I am speaking of is evidence that it is actually true.

I understand the idea of well just have faith and trust that it is true but are you being equal in your trust? Do you trust the writings of other ancients who make theological claims? If you do not trust others but only trust the Christian writers what is your criteria?

First it is faith that there is a God, then it is faith that the men who wrote it down actually saw what they said they did, then it is believing that although miraculous events are impossible now that they can really happen. If I told you I had an invisible dragon in my garage, thanks Sagan, you could put enough trust in me to believe me but why should you?

The skeptics here are not believing just because they really really don't want to. Don't get me wrong a lot of us REALLY don't want to as well but we can't see a reason why we could even if we wanted to. If the solution is to just have faith and throw evidence/reason to the wind then there is no rational way for us to get to faith.

This is why claims such as miracles etc could/should be easily validated by an all powerful being. Most people are going to agree with me that this being will NOT prove his existence in any direct way but they believe that for a different reason than I do. There is usually some theological justification that is mustered/attempted to explain why God cannot do something that would make evangelism and Christianity a whole lot easier. That thing is to actually prove that he is real.

(December 31, 2011 at 9:42 am)aleialoura Wrote: I mean, just look at how they scramble to defend themselves! I think the original hypothesis hasn't been disproved, and we can think it a safe bet to be sure that theists are insecure. Especially Christians.

Like I said before, this isn't the way people behave when they're certain they are in possession of the truth.

Alan Watts wrote in a book called "The Wisdom of Insecurity" that it is the very attempt to attain security that leaves us feeling so insecure. Christians are a perfect example.

My complaint with most Christians is that they admit that faith is required to know God but then immediately abandon that faith for the certainty of the bible. I find they have no faith whatsoever in things unseen as they like to say. What they have is dead certainty that the answer to every question is in the damned bible.

Because I have faith I reject biblical certainty. Of course, I don't have any belief in their God. But I have faith that the universe is an amazing place and that sentience, however long it may last, is a precious gift. If you can't enjoy this moment an eternity of moments aren't going to be any better.

(December 30, 2011 at 4:41 am)Forsaken Wrote: Ever since the authorities in my country banned the screening of Da Vinci's Code due to an outcry from the church, I have always felt that the theists are an insecure bunch of people who are hanging by a thread to a faith that has no logic, no truth and just plain stupid.

This is very evident on this forum. Why would these theist sign up, in the first place, on a forum that does not share their ideals and beliefs? Why would these theists then take time out to read and reply to posts instead of utilizing the same time to pray to their imaginary daddy.

How many of us on this forum are members of a Christian forum? I guess none. Why? Because Christianity (or any other religion for that matter) does not threaten us. We know they are simply a bunch of retards lost in their own fairy tale world. So why waste time to sign up on their community and share our intelligence which is beyond comprehension with the feeble minded theists.

Same cannot be said for these theists. They feel so insecure that we know the truth that they have to waste their time to come to our forums in their desperate attempt to entice a few to their world where reality and truth does not hold prominence.

I feel sorry for these theists, though. They come here and make a mockery out of themselves.

Theists are not insecure athesist are insecure thats why they do not beleive in god if they were secure like us they would first go and actually find out where their exsistance came from and this world came in exsistance god had said that there will be foolish people who will not accept my exsistance but let me tell you if you want evidance go to mecca and see for yourself there are heaps of evidence there and we are not making a mock of ourselves its you people making a mock of yourself I HATE ATHEISTS IF I GET A CHANCE WILL KILL ALL OF THEM!

So you hate us for not being a deluded twat like you?

Nice one.

Well, he'll just have to go kill atheists somewhere else.

Gone so soon?

(December 30, 2011 at 4:41 am)Forsaken Wrote: Ever since the authorities in my country banned the screening of Da Vinci's Code due to an outcry from the church, I have always felt that the theists are an insecure bunch of people who are hanging by a thread to a faith that has no logic, no truth and just plain stupid.

This is very evident on this forum. Why would these theist sign up, in the first place, on a forum that does not share their ideals and beliefs? Why would these theists then take time out to read and reply to posts instead of utilizing the same time to pray to their imaginary daddy.

How many of us on this forum are members of a Christian forum? I guess none. Why? Because Christianity (or any other religion for that matter) does not threaten us. We know they are simply a bunch of retards lost in their own fairy tale world. So why waste time to sign up on their community and share our intelligence which is beyond comprehension with the feeble minded theists.

Same cannot be said for these theists. They feel so insecure that we know the truth that they have to waste their time to come to our forums in their desperate attempt to entice a few to their world where reality and truth does not hold prominence.

I feel sorry for these theists, though. They come here and make a mockery out of themselves.

What makes this forum or the atheists that you know better than this explanation of theists?

Exchange the word theists with atheists and the word atheists with theists in your OP and nothing changes. Tolerance is so under appreciated, and it's quite sad to see it everyday on this forum. A belief does not make one individual better than another. I'm constantly baffled by the utter arrogance of most on this forum, not all theists are 'retards, morons, etc.' and I find that language to be completely horrendous.

Everyone defends their own beliefs, you do it as much as any theist does it, so why attack others for their beliefs? This isn't a discussion, nor a debate, this is blatant disregard for the emotions and personal beliefs of others. There is a distinct difference between discussing the topic of religion with someone who is open to it, and going around proclaiming that everyone who holds a certain belief is stupid and beyond help.

Get over yourself and learn some humility, please.

Good riddance.

That was in reply to "Gone so soon?" which was in response to the would-be atheist murderer.

Perhaps, I echo your sentiments. If we all spent less time congratulating ourselves for our insight and disparaging others for disagreeing we could have more interesting conversations.

(December 31, 2011 at 1:34 pm)Perhaps Wrote: Get over yourself and learn some humility, please.

How are you displaying any more humility than him? Your post makes the assumption that your manner of doing things is somehow better, despite that you are not practicing what you are preaching. You also suggest that the same thing he said about theists is true of atheists. You go on to say that "most" atheists on this forum use terms that disgust you, which is clear bullshit because only a select few here even use the term retard. So, it is okay to take an insult and direct it at someone else, but not okay to be original about it? Isn't calling someone arrogant, whilst taking on a mammy role and little arrogant? Oh, please. Looks like someone just feels like having a moral high ground moment. Consider the moment yours, however false it may be.

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(December 31, 2011 at 1:36 pm)whateverist Wrote: If we all spent less time congratulating ourselves for our insight and disparaging others for disagreeing we could have more interesting conversations.

Really? I just love these "wouldn't the forum be so much better if everyone was Jesus" moments. You try having an interesting conversation that consists of "Dinosaurs and people lived together" and "Well, sir, I politely disagree." "You're going to hell." "Well, I disagree with that too." ad infinitum. People aren't disparaging others for disagreeing. They are disparaging others for supporting hate-filled dogma that should have been discarded centuries ago. When someone inserts a religious bias that is detrimental to the forward momentum of mankind, you bet I'm going to chew his ass out. This is already the most theist welcoming atheist forum I know of. I don't think we need to take it further than that.

(December 31, 2011 at 1:42 pm)Shell B Wrote:

(December 31, 2011 at 1:34 pm)Perhaps Wrote: Get over yourself and learn some humility, please.

How are you displaying any more humility than him? Your post makes the assumption that your manner of doing things is somehow better, despite that you are not practicing what you are preaching. You also suggest that the same thing he said about theists is true of atheists. You go on to say that "most" atheists on this forum use terms that disgust you, which is clear bullshit because only a select few here even use the term retard. So, it is okay to take an insult and direct it at someone else, but not okay to be original about it? Isn't calling someone arrogant, whilst taking on a mammy role and little arrogant? Oh, please. Looks like someone just feels like having a moral high ground moment. Consider the moment yours, however false it may be.

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(December 31, 2011 at 1:36 pm)whateverist Wrote: If we all spent less time congratulating ourselves for our insight and disparaging others for disagreeing we could have more interesting conversations.

Really? I just love these "wouldn't the forum be so much better if everyone was Jesus" moments. You try having an interesting conversation that consists of "Dinosaurs and people lived together" and "Well, sir, I politely disagree." "You're going to hell." "Well, I disagree with that too." ad infinitum. People aren't disparaging others for disagreeing. They are disparaging others for supporting hate-filled dogma that should have been discarded centuries ago. When someone inserts a religious bias that is detrimental to the forward momentum of mankind, you bet I'm going to chew his ass out. This is already the most theist welcoming atheist forum I know of. I don't think we need to take it further than that.

Believe what you wish, and perhaps spend some more time re-reading what I actually said. I'm afraid you've missed the forest for the trees.

What separates your attitude towards your own beliefs from the theist's toward theirs? Dogma comes in many forms, and as I said, there is a distinct difference between discussion among open-minded peers, and proclaiming arrogance to those who wish not to hear it.