(July 14, 2025 at 2:31 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(July 14, 2025 at 1:48 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: The GOP aren't dogmatists. If they were, they would never have nominated Trump three times. They nominated him precisely because they had no principles. Dogma is only words which are spewed when needed, useful for garnering votes, to be abandoned forthwith.

Why do you think people with the same mindset as Trump would have no principles?

Because Trump has no principles.

(July 13, 2025 at 9:03 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Nah, consciousness is concrete.

Then why can't I build a shed on it?

 If consciousness is concrete, what are its physical properties? How much does a cubic centimetre of consciousness weigh? What is its mass? How does it react to heat, light, gravity? Is it a conductor or an insulator? If it gets wet, do I dry it off with a microfibre cloth or a paper towel? Can I paint it?

Boru

(July 14, 2025 at 3:23 am)Paleophyte Wrote:

(July 14, 2025 at 2:31 am)Ahriman Wrote: Why do you think people with the same mindset as Trump would have no principles?

Because Trump has no principles.

Sure he does, they're just really shit principles.

(July 14, 2025 at 4:56 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(July 13, 2025 at 9:03 pm)Ahriman Wrote: Nah, consciousness is concrete.

Then why can't I build a shed on it?

 If consciousness is concrete, what are its physical properties? How much does a cubic centimetre of consciousness weigh? What is its mass? How does it react to heat, light, gravity? Is it a conductor or an insulator? If it gets wet, do I dry it off with a microfibre cloth or a paper towel? Can I paint it?

Boru

The brain?

(July 14, 2025 at 8:26 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(July 14, 2025 at 4:56 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Then why can't I build a shed on it?

 If consciousness is concrete, what are its physical properties? How much does a cubic centimetre of consciousness weigh? What is its mass? How does it react to heat, light, gravity? Is it a conductor or an insulator? If it gets wet, do I dry it off with a microfibre cloth or a paper towel? Can I paint it?

Boru

The brain?

The very same brain can be either conscious or unconscious, or it can be conscious of some things but unconscious of others.  Consciousness is no doubt brain-dependent, and the conditions which allow for consciousness are physical (electrical activation, neurochemistry, brain structures), but consciousness itself is a bit more elusive.  That's why scientists refer to it as an emergent property or a function of the brain rather than as the brain itself, just like language is a function of the brain.

What we are conscious of is information.  That information has already been abstracted by unconscious processes which work much faster than consciousness.

(July 14, 2025 at 9:02 am)Alan V Wrote:

(July 14, 2025 at 8:26 am)Ahriman Wrote: The brain?

The very same brain can be either conscious or unconscious, or it can be conscious of some things but unconscious of others.  Consciousness is no doubt brain-dependent, and the conditions which allow for consciousness are physical (electrical activation, neurochemistry, brain structures), but consciousness itself is a bit more elusive.  That's why scientists refer to it as an emergent property or a function of the brain rather than as the brain itself, just like language is a function of the brain.

What we are conscious of is information.  That information has already been abstracted by unconscious processes which work much faster than consciousness.

Sorry, but "consciousness" and "the physical brain" are synonymous, in my mind. I have been taking different medications for a number of years, which has no doubt affected my brain, to some extent, and my personality is not what it was before I was taking the meds, which leads me to believe that changes in my brain altered my personality.

(July 14, 2025 at 9:19 am)Ahriman Wrote: Sorry, but "consciousness" and "the physical brain" are synonymous, in my mind. I have been taking different medications for a number of years, which has no doubt affected my brain, to some extent, and my personality is not what it was before I was taking the meds, which leads me to believe that changes in my brain altered my personality.

Yes, there is no question that drugs and physical damage alter the way consciousness is processed by the brain. That follows from consciousness being brain-dependent.

(July 14, 2025 at 2:31 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(July 14, 2025 at 1:48 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: The GOP aren't dogmatists. If they were, they would never have nominated Trump three times. They nominated him precisely because they had no principles. Dogma is only words which are spewed when needed, useful for garnering votes, to be abandoned forthwith.

Why do you think people with the same mindset as Trump would have no principles?

What makes you say they have the same mindset as Trump?

(July 14, 2025 at 8:26 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(July 14, 2025 at 4:56 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Then why can't I build a shed on it?

 If consciousness is concrete, what are its physical properties? How much does a cubic centimetre of consciousness weigh? What is its mass? How does it react to heat, light, gravity? Is it a conductor or an insulator? If it gets wet, do I dry it off with a microfibre cloth or a paper towel? Can I paint it?

Boru

The brain?

But not all brains exhibit consciousness.  Moreover, the brain is not a physical property of consciousness any more than electricity is a physical property of a light bulb.

Boru

(July 14, 2025 at 9:19 am)Ahriman Wrote:

(July 14, 2025 at 9:02 am)Alan V Wrote: The very same brain can be either conscious or unconscious, or it can be conscious of some things but unconscious of others.  Consciousness is no doubt brain-dependent, and the conditions which allow for consciousness are physical (electrical activation, neurochemistry, brain structures), but consciousness itself is a bit more elusive.  That's why scientists refer to it as an emergent property or a function of the brain rather than as the brain itself, just like language is a function of the brain.

What we are conscious of is information.  That information has already been abstracted by unconscious processes which work much faster than consciousness.

Sorry, but "consciousness" and "the physical brain" are synonymous, in my mind. I have been taking different medications for a number of years, which has no doubt affected my brain, to some extent, and my personality is not what it was before I was taking the meds, which leads me to believe that changes in my brain altered my personality.

Try this: take a human brain (how you acquire it is up to you). Put it on your kitchen table. Observe it for signs of consciousness.

And ‘personality’ and ‘consciousness’ are not the same thing.

Boru