It’s breathtaking that our new friend can say shit like that and then wonder how he’s sideways to magic book. Big Guys just one of us? Jesus wept. Speaking of, when I took my morning piss I shook the unit three times. As we all know, more than twice is playing with it. How many tears on the cross did that cost him?

(September 18, 2026 at 12:52 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It’s breathtaking that our new friend can say shit like that and then wonder how he’s sideways to magic book.  Big Guys just one of us?  Jesus wept.  Speaking of, when I took my morning piss I shook the unit three times.  As we all know, more than twice is playing with it.  How many tears on the cross did that cost him?

So Jesus sinned by urinating? This is your monumental objection to Christianity?

(September 18, 2026 at 12:36 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(September 18, 2026 at 10:19 am)Jal Wrote: Superstitious? You're a liar. I have defined Yahweh as simply one of us - the first of us to evolve. He has no magical powers, no supernatural abilities, as I have defined Him.

Yet more than once, you've tried to associate my views to supernatural magic. Which makes you a bald-faced liar.

Superstition (n)

1. [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.88)]irrational belief usually founded on ignorance or fear and characterized by obsessive reverence for omens, charms, etc[/color]
   
   
2. [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.88)]a notion, act or ritual that derives from such belief[/color]
   
   
3. [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.88)]any irrational belief, esp with regard to the unknown[/color]
   

The court finds you guilty as charged and sentences you to read ‘Science for Kids.’

Boru

Thanks for confirming that my beliefs are not superstition.

(September 18, 2026 at 12:52 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: It’s breathtaking that our new friend can say shit like that and then wonder how he’s sideways to magic book.  Big Guys just one of us?  Jesus wept.  Speaking of, when I took my morning piss I shook the unit three times.  As we all know, more than twice is playing with it.  How many tears on the cross did that cost him?

Oh I see. God would never weep, in your view, and since Jesus wept, it proves He wasn't God.

Yet God said:
"[/b]If you do not listen, I will weep in secret"


I'm sorry that traditional theology, due to Greek  influence, has mispresented the Bible. In this Greek view, God is NOT like us. 

The truth is:
(1) In one sense He is just like us (in terms of general psychological constitution such as variation in emotions). 
(2) But having perfected His own holiness for billions of years, in that sense He is vastly different than us.

Did I break it?

(September 18, 2026 at 12:30 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Vicarious redemption, as an idea quite independent of whether or not gods exist and what their attributes or natures are, makes no sense and is evil.  

How many dead Palestinians should it take to clear my unpaid parking tickets, in your estimation?

I'm not really sure why you raised the issue of Palestinians. Personally I am ambivalent about many political issues, I am often not confident in deciding what is upright.

I will say that the Christian tendency to assume that God currently entitles the Jews to the land of Israel is absolute hogwash, since that assumption is based on a stupid reading of the Bible. In fact it's idiocy to try to ascertain God's will from the Bible, as I discussed earlier on this thread. 

Moving on. You mentioned vicarious redemption. Fine. Let's discuss. First of all, must every child 100% agree with his father's meting out of punishments? God has one rule - conscience, even for  Himself. I can't much fault Yahweh if vicarious redemption sits well with His conscience.  If you would ever consider paying for your child's speeding ticket, or if you would ever be understanding of a parent who did so, you've already sanctioned vicarious redemption.

Richard Dawkins says that God should just put people in heaven without atonement. In other words, NO JUSTICE. Again, must the child 100% agree with the father? Lately I've been watching episodes of Law and Order. When the perp gets away scot free, I find myself disappointed. I wanted justice. I think most people, if they are honest, wanted justice at least one time in their life. Yahweh can't please everyone, but since the majority of us want justice, maybe it's a good thing. If Richard Dawkins wants to "pay his own speeding ticket" (in hell), fine with me. I am thankful that Christ is paying for mine.

(September 18, 2026 at 1:06 pm)Jal Wrote:

(September 18, 2026 at 12:36 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Superstition (n)

1. [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.88)]irrational belief usually founded on ignorance or fear and characterized by obsessive reverence for omens, charms, etc[/color]
   
   
2. [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.88)]a notion, act or ritual that derives from such belief[/color]
   
   
3. [color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.88)]any irrational belief, esp with regard to the unknown[/color]
   

The court finds you guilty as charged and sentences you to read ‘Science for Kids.’

Boru

Thanks for confirming that my beliefs are not superstition.

There is no such confirmation (no pun intended).

Boru

(September 18, 2026 at 1:25 pm)Jal Wrote:

(September 18, 2026 at 12:30 pm)The Grand Nudger Wrote: Vicarious redemption, as an idea quite independent of whether or not gods exist and what their attributes or natures are, makes no sense and is evil.  

How many dead Palestinians should it take to clear my unpaid parking tickets, in your estimation?

I'm not really sure why you raised the issue of Palestinians. Personally I am ambivalent about many political issues, I am often not confident in deciding what is upright.

I will say that the Christian tendency to assume that God currently entitles the Jews to the land of Israel is absolute hogwash, since that assumption is based on a stupid reading of the Bible. In fact it's idiocy to try to ascertain God's will from the Bible, as I discussed earlier on this thread. 

Moving on. You mentioned vicarious redemption. Fine. Let's discuss. First of all, must every child 100% agree with his father's meting out of punishments? God has one rule - conscience, even for  Himself. I can't much fault Yahweh if vicarious redemption sits well with His conscience.  If you would ever consider paying for your child's speeding ticket, or if you would ever be understanding of a parent who did so, you've already sanctioned vicarious redemption.

Richard Dawkins says that God should just put people in heaven without atonement. In other words, NO JUSTICE. Again, must the child 100% agree with the father? Lately I've been watching episodes of Law and Order. When the perp gets away scot free, I find myself disappointed. I wanted justice. I think most people, if they are honest, wanted justice at least one time in their life. Yahweh can't please everyone, but since the majority of us want justice, maybe it's a good thing. If Richard Dawkins wants to "pay his own speeding ticket" (in hell), fine with me. I am thankful that Christ is paying for mine.

Anyone who prefers justice to mercy is on the fast track to psychopathy.

Boru

(September 18, 2026 at 1:27 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:

(September 18, 2026 at 1:25 pm)Jal Wrote: I'm not really sure why you raised the issue of Palestinians. Personally I am ambivalent about many political issues, I am often not confident in deciding what is upright.

I will say that the Christian tendency to assume that God currently entitles the Jews to the land of Israel is absolute hogwash, since that assumption is based on a stupid reading of the Bible. In fact it's idiocy to try to ascertain God's will from the Bible, as I discussed earlier on this thread. 

Moving on. You mentioned vicarious redemption. Fine. Let's discuss. First of all, must every child 100% agree with his father's meting out of punishments? God has one rule - conscience, even for  Himself. I can't much fault Yahweh if vicarious redemption sits well with His conscience.  If you would ever consider paying for your child's speeding ticket, or if you would ever be understanding of a parent who did so, you've already sanctioned vicarious redemption.

Richard Dawkins says that God should just put people in heaven without atonement. In other words, NO JUSTICE. Again, must the child 100% agree with the father? Lately I've been watching episodes of Law and Order. When the perp gets away scot free, I find myself disappointed. I wanted justice. I think most people, if they are honest, wanted justice at least one time in their life. Yahweh can't please everyone, but since the majority of us want justice, maybe it's a good thing. If Richard Dawkins wants to "pay his own speeding ticket" (in hell), fine with me. I am thankful that Christ is paying for mine.

Anyone who prefers justice to mercy is on the fast track to psychopathy.

Boru

Ok so you want NO JUSTICE.  Only  mercy. Yet somehow I doubt you're being consistent. If someone seriously wronged you and/or your family, and laughed your face about it, I suspect you'd want some justice.

(September 18, 2026 at 1:25 pm)Jal Wrote: I am thankful that Christ is paying for mine.

There’s the intellectual vacuity and moral evil. An intelligent and decent person might be horrified by the idea that some other poor schmuck was brutally tortured and murdered because they couldn’t stop pulling their pud.

A lackey saying thank you to his arsonist boss for a piece of the proceeds of the crime. I find that disgusting…and that’s why I’m not a Christian.