My ears have been raped the past 3 weeks with preachers saying that if i don't accept god I will go to hell, or the only way to get to heaven was to accept god as my savior. and the moment i say i don't belive in your imaginary friend or the book you seem to cling to they proceed to further and even forcefully (not physical) but right up in your face and in front of everyone say "this man is going to hell because he does not believe." Then I reply why should I fear someone that has never shown one shred of evidence that he ever existed other than that what some really bad storytellers in which none of their stories even make sense, nevertheless agree on anything. Why should I worship your god, if there are so many different religions, even in your own faith, that dissagree on the contex of the bible. Why should i believe? They would answer that I have to believe and god will show me the way. I have to have faith. Then i respond Why do you have to try to scare everyone into beleiving in your god? and he said that it the world out there that's scary and hell is scary place. why would you want to risk your eternal salvation. and deny it. i replied that I am not afraid of hell, and heaven wouldn't be a place i would want to dwell anyhow for eternity. Kissing some guy's ass is not what i call fun. secondly there is no evidence of heaven or hell so if there is a god, he set us up to fail. so i would have lost all respect for him. and finally i said you have your faith so hard in this idea, what if your religion is the wrong religion and mormonism is true, or muslim or what if they are all screwed and zeus was the real god and everyone has dismissed him. I finally ended with if you put blind faith into fear and god it can cause intolerance and even uneeded wars. He looked at me pale as can be and goes "Fuck"

Quote:My ears have been raped the past 3 weeks with preachers saying that if i don't accept god I will go to hell

As the bible states.

Quote: or the only way to get to heaven was to accept god as my savior.

As the bible states.

Quote:but right up in your face and in front of everyone say "this man is going to hell because he does not believe."

Are they wrong? At least from their viewpoint?

Quote: Then I reply why should I fear someone that has never shown one shred of evidence that he ever existed

Well, that's the point of faith. Really, if you don't why do you even bother getting mad at that person for telling you that you're going to hell?

Quote:Why should I worship your god, if there are so many different religions, even in your own faith, that dissagree on the contex of the bible.

No matter what religion you worship, they will tell you nothing else but what this man told you.

Quote:They would answer that I have to believe and god will show me the way. I have to have faith. Then i respond Why do you have to try to scare everyone into beleiving in your god?

Since you're all scared and all, do you believe in Jesus?
Or do you think that they adress their words to the believers themselves?

Quote: i replied that I am not afraid of hell, and heaven wouldn't be a place i would want to dwell anyhow for eternity.

Why? It's rather foolish to pick hell over heaven. Only a fool would do so.

Quote:Kissing some guy's ass is not what i call fun.

You'd rather burn for all eternity? Be my guess. I'd take my chances with kissing his ass.

Quote:secondly there is no evidence of heaven or hell so if there is a god

Which brings us to the point to why you were having this meaningless discussion about "I'd rather choose hell" thing.

Quote:so if there is a god, he set us up to fail. so i would have lost all respect for him

But there is faith, friend. Really, it's a personal thing.

Quote: what if your religion is the wrong religion and mormonism is true, or muslim or what if they are all screwed and zeus was the real god and everyone has dismissed him.

But that'd really bring you nowhere, really. IF you have doubts about the geniunity of your faith, and think that it might not be real, I suggest you look for another one, until you find the one that seems to be real.

Quote: I finally ended with if you put blind faith into fear and god it can cause intolerance and even uneeded wars.

Wow, you showed him.

Hell is a motivational tool, to scare people into religion. The threats are hollow but shouldn't be tolerated. I mean who wants random nut jobs yelling at you saying "you're going to hell!"? If anyone came up to me like that I'd punch'em. They'll wake up on the floor with 'dick head' written on their head.

Fear is a terrible motivator. Fear leads to hate, hate leads to rebellion and rebellion leads to revolution.

Also hell and an all knowing god doesn't add up. Nothing to fear. Just arseholes trying to scare people, only risking their own well-being. Someone is bound to deck them sooner or later.

Many of the religions tend to have a common selling point:

Worship the guy you've never seen or will ever see in real life or TORTURE FOREVER!

They have to ramp up the consquences so much and the fear of not doing with what you're told with the worst fear imaginable otherewise people might see hte deception for what it is.

And good sirs, how would you rather have a faith that rewards the unbeliever?
What point is there for a God to assert authority over his creations, if they choose to willingly disobey him?
In truth, the lack of a hell would quickly discourage any believers from believing in a religion, since they will know that they are doing it in vain, if the God does not punish the sinful, guilty, or the heathen.
It makes no sense to criticize hell in any religion as a matter of fact.
There has to be a hell, even if there is no heaven.

(January 9, 2012 at 4:03 pm)TheDarkestOfAngels Wrote: Many of the religions tend to have a common selling point:

Worship the guy you've never seen or will ever see in real life or TORTURE FOREVER!

It's like pointing a gun at someone's head and demanding they lay on the floor and worship you. Some how....that's not really a good way to earn respect. Only resentment. They follow because of the harm you'll cause if they don't, not because of love.

God! You're doing it wrong! Stupid!

Hell really is a really silly idea, as stupid as the people who invented such an idea. If there is a god, I really don't think he/it could be as stupid as that.

Quote:What point is there for a God to assert authority over his creations, if they choose to willingly disobey him?

I haven't disobeyed god, I've rejected the claim that a god exists. The claim originated from man. Unsupported, highly improbable and a god that they describe has the morals and manners of a spoilt child. A malevolent dictator not worthy of worship or attention. I haven't disobeyed god, merely rejected the claim that a badly thought up one exists.

(January 9, 2012 at 4:06 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: And good sirs, how would you rather have a faith that rewards the unbeliever?
What point is there for a God to assert authority over his creations, if they choose to willingly disobey him?
In truth, the lack of a hell would quickly discourage any believers from believing in a religion, since they will know that they are doing it in vain, if the God does not punish the sinful, guilty, or the heathen.
It makes no sense to criticize hell in any religion as a matter of fact.
There has to be a hell, even if there is no heaven.

The fact that you believe this makes you a terrifying human being. Essentially, the only thing that keeps you from destroying everyone and everything around you for your own benefit is a flimsy belief in a place that doesn't exist. You are EVERYTHING that is wrong with this planet.


For me ...
I serve no god.
I believe in no hell.
I believe in no heaven.
I've never killed or have wished to kill.
I've never raped or even considered a sexual assault.
I've never stolen another man's possessions.
I've never cheated on my significant others ... ever.
I am proof that your point is not valid. There are millions of atheists that have proven that your point is simply pulled out of thin air to aide in your lies and open bigotry.

I've done all these things with no god and no hell. You "sir" are EVERYTHING that is wrong with this planet. A bigot and a racist of whom NO ONE should ever be left in a room alone with. Only "god" knows when and where you'll decide to use his name to do whatever the fuck you want.

(January 9, 2012 at 4:06 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: And good sirs, how would you rather have a faith that rewards the unbeliever?

The capacity to do good deeds should be sufficient regardless of what one believes. Reward should be based on that, not belief.

kılıç_mehmet Wrote:What point is there for a God to assert authority over his creations, if they choose to willingly disobey him?

In this case, the only thing God is concerned about is belief in him. If choosing not to have blind faith because you feel evidence is lacking is willingly disobeying him, God has some serious issues. The point is that God should be concerned about good behavior and not silly mind games.

kılıç_mehmet Wrote:In truth, the lack of a hell would quickly discourage any believers from believing in a religion, since they will know that they are doing it in vain, if the God does not punish the sinful, guilty, or the heathen.

So are you admitting it's faith through extortion?

kılıç_mehmet Wrote:There has to be a hell, even if there is no heaven.

Because you say so?

Quote:I haven't disobeyed god, I've rejected the claim that a god exists. The claim originated from man. Unsupported, highly improbable and a god that they describe has the morals and manners of a spoilt child. A malevolent dictator not worthy of worship or attention. I haven't disobeyed god, merely rejected the claim that a badly thought up one exists.

You choose to change the context in which you have disobeyed God.
Simply does not really change the fact that you disobeyed him by not believing in him.
Of course, if we assume that God exist, for that matter of fact.
Besides, if he is malevolent, or dictatorial, if he demands worship, it'd be wiser to obey him, don't you agree? You cannot win against God, as you're not even of any worth, nor is this whole planet, if you take into consideration how a "one true god" sounds like. It sounds like a lot. He could simply wipe you off of the surface of the earth, and create a new earth if he wants to.
Meaning, if God exist, you are only here because he wants you to be here.
What his ultarior motives are, we can't know for sure.

Quote:The fact that you believe this makes you a terrifying human being. Essentially, the only thing that keeps you from destroying everyone and everything around you for your own benefit is a flimsy belief in a place that doesn't exist. You are EVERYTHING that is wrong with this planet.

I think you have serious problems with reading&understanding what you just read.

Quote:For me ...
I serve no god.
I believe in no hell.
I believe in no heaven.
I've never killed or have wished to kill.
I've never raped or even considered a sexual assault.
I've never stolen another man's possessions.
I've never cheated on my significant others ... ever.
I am proof that your point is not valid. There are millions of atheists that have proven that your point is simply pulled out of thin air to aide in your lies and open bigotry.

Good, but of what good is this all to me? Or to God?
Really, if there is a God, none of this actually matters to him in any way.

Quote:I've done all these things with no god and no hell. You "sir" are EVERYTHING that is wrong with this planet. A bigot and a racist of whom NO ONE should ever be left in a room alone with. Only "god" knows when and where you'll decide to use his name to do whatever the fuck you want.

Did I say that hell or god goads people into doing good, or evil?
I merely stated that without the fear of hell, or the existence of hell, religion would be pointless.
If you really would have read my post with the intent of understanding it, you would have.
Besides, I am on par with you on everything. I have not cheated, stolen, raped, killed...I am a law abiding citizen, and I'm a man welcomed and respected in almost every place in society.
So, what good is that to me, when it comes to God. IF God exists, everything I've done on this world, pales in comparison to him. At least the things I've done for myself, as we're only talking about individuals here.
Tell me, friend.

(January 9, 2012 at 3:52 pm)kılıç_mehmet Wrote:

Quote:Kissing some guy's ass is not what i call fun.

You'd rather burn for all eternity? Be my guess. I'd take my chances with kissing his ass.

What a fucking pussy.

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(January 9, 2012 at 4:03 pm)Ace Otana Wrote: Fear is a terrible motivator. Fear leads to hate, hate leads to rebellion and rebellion leads to revolution.

Revolution leads to... THE DARK SIDE!