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RE: Do you think that without religion the crusades would have never happened?
June 29, 2009 at 1:28 pm
(June 29, 2009 at 1:06 pm)LukeMC Wrote: (June 29, 2009 at 7:49 am)g-mark Wrote: No there isn't. I wrote the fucking statement. Me, here on my computer, or was that god.
John has blue hair.
I tell John his hair is blue.
There is no difference between labelling something of his doing and labelling his entirety.
Therefore, I said John is blue overall.
Oh foul logic, how I praise thee.
Nice analogy.
I would also like to point out for the benefit of others, since g-mark isn't here anymore, that insulting a statement and insulting a person are different. Smart people can say stupid things. I have probably said many stupid things before, although I tend to be willing to correct them if it's addressed.
It is also a distinction this forum makes. We allow statements to be insulted, because that's what can happen in debates. But we draw the line at directly insulting people, which is one of the many reasons g-mark has been banned.
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RE: Do you think that without religion the crusades would have never happened?
June 29, 2009 at 6:58 pm
The Crusades would have happened regardless. Pope Urban II simply used the promise of remission of sins if one fought for the Holy Land as a means of motivation; you have to understand, however, that when he said "remission" of sins, he wasn't suggesting people would go straight to Heaven for fighting in the Crusades; rather, they would spend less time in purgatory before going there (Pope Urban II's view, not mine.) You have to understand, though, that knights in 1095 were killing and plundering amongst one another and were anxious for any legitimate excuse to go to battle; the First Crusade provided them with that. Even if you take out the "God" part of the equation, the "gold and glory" aspect of the crusades is still there.
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RE: Do you think that without religion the crusades would have never happened?
June 30, 2009 at 1:36 am
Yeah thats what I thought. Religion was an excuse to fight but even if religion didn't exist they'd just find another reason to attack.
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RE: Do you think that without religion the crusades would have never happened?
July 13, 2009 at 8:08 pm
How about another question to revive the thread.
Do you think the French Terror would have happened without the Rationalist Enlightenment?
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RE: Do you think that without religion the crusades would have never happened?
July 13, 2009 at 8:19 pm
[quote='Anto Kennedy' pid='22735' dateline='1247530116']
How about another question to revive the thread.
Do you think the French Terror would have happened without the Rationalist Enlightenment?
Probably.The French Terror was about power not ideology, as have been most revolutions,beginning with the American War Of Independence.
Revolutions come from the middle,not the bottom,fomented by disenchanted middle class intellectuals who then organise the masses. Revolutions tend to be bloody.
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RE: Do you think that without religion the crusades would have never happened?
July 14, 2009 at 6:50 pm
(July 13, 2009 at 8:19 pm)padraic Wrote: [quote='Anto Kennedy' pid='22735' dateline='1247530116']
How about another question to revive the thread.
Do you think the French Terror would have happened without the Rationalist Enlightenment?
Probably.The French Terror was about power not ideology, as have been most revolutions,beginning with the American War Of Independence.
Revolutions come from the middle,not the bottom,fomented by disenchanted middle class intellectuals who then organise the masses. Revolutions tend to be bloody.
If I may intercede gents, what was the Rationalist Enlightenment?
The revolution was about overthrowing the ancien regime and replacing it with " liberte, egalite, fraternite".
It was led by the middle class with the initial support of the lower class.
And yes, revolutions do tend to be bloody...otherwise, what's the point?
 A man is born to a virgin mother, lives, dies, comes alive again and then disappears into the clouds to become his Dad. How likely is that?
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RE: Do you think that without religion the crusades would have never happened?
July 15, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Quote:If I may intercede gents, what was the Rationalist Enlightenment?
A movement of thought in the latter half of the 18th Century which influenced (perhaps formed the core of) Republican ideology.
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RE: Do you think that without religion the crusades would have never happened?
July 15, 2009 at 2:10 pm
[quote='Anto Kennedy' pid='22914' dateline='1247681184']
Quote:If I may intercede gents, what was the Rationalist Enlightenment?
A movement of thought in the latter half of the 18th Century which influenced (perhaps formed the core of) Republican ideology.
[/quote
Thanks for that. I've read intothe French Revolution quite a bit, but never come across it as a possible cause.
By the way, I think the " terror " was understandable in the circumstances i.e. to protect the revolution from counter-revolution.
A man is born to a virgin mother, lives, dies, comes alive again and then disappears into the clouds to become his Dad. How likely is that?
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