(February 3, 2012 at 9:35 pm)Herroimnathan Wrote: Our nation is in trillions of dollars of debt.

This isn't necessarily an American forum but you can thank Bush for that one.

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(February 3, 2012 at 9:35 pm)Herroimnathan Wrote: Hahaha, love how you didnt read my post before this. Said i have liberal beliefs, ron paul has liberal beliefs (please dont say otherwise).I said i hate the party system but i would register either independent or democratic. Learn how to read buddy.

Please don't say otherwise because you'd circle around it...

If Ron Paul was so liberal he'd be a Democrat, plain and fuckin simple.

Destroying the EPA and defunding Education is not Democratic, learn your basic politics, guy.

(February 3, 2012 at 9:50 pm)Hitchslap Wrote:

(February 3, 2012 at 9:35 pm)Herroimnathan Wrote: Our nation is in trillions of dollars of debt.

Bro, if you're still implying that im a republican, stop.
Okay that is true, bush was a terrible president. But Obama promised us hope and change, and the state of the country is now terrible. So for you too imply that obama wasn't a bad president is bullcrap.
Im not trying to make you republican. Im trying to show thr atheists on this forum that Ron Paul is Liberal on many issues, and the he would probably appeal to you if you actually gave him a chance. That's what i mean by following your party blindly. That just because ron paul is a republican that means he won't be a good president. I ask you too watch him in one of the debates (with an open mind) and you'll see that he appeals to democrats. Just give the guy a chance, and if you still dont like him ill leave you alone

This isn't necessarily an American forum but you can thank Bush for that one.

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(February 3, 2012 at 9:50 pm)Hitchslap Wrote:

(February 3, 2012 at 9:35 pm)Herroimnathan Wrote: Our nation is in trillions of dollars of debt.

This isn't necessarily an American forum but you can thank Bush for that one.

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(February 3, 2012 at 9:35 pm)Herroimnathan Wrote: Hahaha, love how you didnt read my post before this. Said i have liberal beliefs, ron paul has liberal beliefs (please dont say otherwise).I said i hate the party system but i would register either independent or democratic. Learn how to read buddy.

Please don't say otherwise because you'd circle around it...

If Ron Paul was so liberal he'd be a Democrat, plain and fuckin simple.

Destroying the EPA and defunding Education is not Democratic, learn your basic politics, guy.

Yes true that isn't liberal. But ending the war on terror (withdrawing all the troops back to america) is and so is ending the war on drugs.
He also has many liberal views on the patriot act and the TSA.
He's a libertarian which are tolerant.
Tolerant=liberal.

Quote:If i was 18

I'm guessing 12.

What makes you think we havn't seen Ron Paul debate or even know anything about him, so condesending.

And no, what would make him a bad president are some of his positions based on being a Republican.

I expect Ron to run as a Libertarian next time and you should too because Republicans days are numbered.

(February 3, 2012 at 9:19 pm)Herroimnathan Wrote: Um yeah people who blindly follow a party no matter the circumstances are idiots.

Im an independent left wing Libertarian with anarcho-syndicalist leanings. The idea of political parties to me sometimes makes me cringe... you know, like how some Ron Paul supporters are members of the Libertarian party and sometimes blindly support Ron Paul who is a member of the Republican party.

Quote:Just as people who blindly follow a religion with no proof are idiots.

It isnt smart to follow something blindly, especially without proof...but not all religious people are idiots.

Quote:How about you piss off?

I just think coming into a community and making your first communication to that community that some of its members are idiots because they dont blindly follow Ron Paul and his republican party (or is it libertarian party?) are idiots is rather idiotic...

...not to mention rude...

dont you agree?

(February 3, 2012 at 10:04 pm)Hitchslap Wrote: What makes you think we havn't seen Ron Paul debate or even know anything about him, so condesending.

And no, what would make him a bad president are some of his positions based on being a Republican.

I expect Ron to run as a Libertarian next time and you should too because Republicans days are numbered.

Okay you're still basically assuming im a republican, FUCKING STOP. Sorry, but it's annoying. I'm a moderate liberal. Dude im just realizing that i cant convince you to change your beliefs. So there is no point in arguing with you. You're stuck on obama, You won't even let me try to explain my case. You aren't reading any of my posts so I'm done trying to tell you the good things about ron paul. close-minded and ignorant. So whatever, go vote for Obama, Have fun living during a depression.

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(February 3, 2012 at 10:03 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:If i was 18

I'm guessing 12.

I'm 15. Why are you guessing that I'm twelve. Explain Your point.

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(February 3, 2012 at 10:11 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote:

(February 3, 2012 at 9:19 pm)Herroimnathan Wrote: Um yeah people who blindly follow a party no matter the circumstances are idiots.

Im an independent left wing Libertarian with anarcho-syndicalist leanings. The idea of political parties to me sometimes makes me cringe... you know, like how some Ron Paul supporters are members of the Libertarian party and sometimes blindly support Ron Paul who is a member of the Republican party.

Quote:Just as people who blindly follow a religion with no proof are idiots.

It isnt smart to follow something blindly, especially without proof...but not all religious people are idiots.

Quote:How about you piss off?

I just think coming into a community and making your first communication to that community that some of its members are idiots because they dont blindly follow Ron Paul and his republican party (or is it libertarian party?) are idiots is rather idiotic...

...not to mention rude...

dont you agree?

I wasn't calling people stupid. I was saying blindly following a party is stupid. Sorry if it came off the wrong way. I'm not blindly following anything. I am not a republican maybe if you actually read my posts you would of saw that i said if i was of age i would register as an independent or Democrat. Don't you find it rude when people assume that I'm a republican because i support a republican and call me idiotic for it. This is why i hate the party system.

Quote:Our nation is in trillions of dollars of debt. You need to cut unneccesary spending to get rid of this debt. For example cutting failed government agencies such as the department of education and energy. Oh and you're forgetting he wants the states to handle these things he's cutting, which creates jobs.

See what I mean? I am sure there are Libertarians out there who know how the govt system works in this country. This guy, on the other hand, just talked out of his ass.
You say that he would rather the states take care of education, and by cutting the dept of education from the fed would create more jobs because the states would make their own depts of education when this happens

the reality is that every single state has their own dept of education already. So by cutting the FEDERAL dept of education, it will merely be nothing more than a loss of jobs.

Quote:Get rid of all our civil rights????? What are you talking about? Saying Ron Paul supporters don't have the facts. Tell me you're basis for saying this. Paul is a libertarian and does not support the patriot act or the TSA.

Paul has said on more than one instance that he would not have voted for the civil rights act, and he has been open about how he thinks it is against freedom of the individual and the employers. He wants the employers to be able to have the freedom to be as racist as they wish, such as putting up whites only signs, or hiring people that arent black if they so choose.

So yeah, he wants to get rid of the civil rights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK-CXGwI2Gk
Ron Paul fails on so many levels of social reality of America today. Ron Paul supporters but TONS of weight on ron Paul saying "those days are old and done with".

So its about "property rights". This means that if a restaurant says "whites only", and a group of black people decide to eat there as a group, that Ron Paul would have no problem with arresting the blacks..and, if the blacks are in a big enough group, and refuse to heed the warnings from the cops to not enter the restaurant, then Ron Paul fully supports the police using water cannons and dogs to "protect property rights" on a group of people who merely dispise racism and want a sandwich.

Libertarians FAIL to admit the consequences of such a position to some communities in America. Sure, it would never happen in New york city, as the business would no longer have people going to it...but what about poor town mississippi, where there are just a few handful of blacks and a vast majority of whites who love the idea of racism. Now the blacks are put at a major disadvantage ...and know you aarent listening to a damn thing I say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JyvkjSKMLw
Ron pauls says that neither side (evolution or creationism) has "absolute proof"...thats one step away from "teach the controversy". If any other Republican said this, we would IMMEDIATELY suggest that he was for teaching creationism in biology class. Ron Paul has been very selective of his words on this topic, and he has mostly been quiet about it.

Now that I have shown you this evidence, which claims he thinks both are not solidly proven...but yet he doesnt accept evolution as fact...I want YOU to show me evidence that he will NOT have creationism in biology class. My evidence, although not complete, is compelling. I now ask that you post evidence that is just as compelling to prove that he will not destroy the biology class.

Quote:Yes Ron Paul is against bailouts. Its called a free market. Some companies will go under and some will be successful. The thing is, in a free market, you can easily find a job if you lose your job. The government can not continue to pay for the failures of certain companies.

But he is NOT for a free market. By allowing companies to hire based on racial prejudice henders many people from entering the market based on something they had no choice about.
EXAMPLE#1: I am a black man in Alabama who wishes to start his own Electrician company. I want to put light switches and stuff like that in. componenets like that can be bought at many different places. Now, I get the break I was finally looking for. I get a commercial contract. It requires commercial grade equipment. I go to the local electrical supply house and it says "whites only". It is the only electrical supply house in a 400 mile radius because I am so deep in the country. ron Pauls veiw of property rights being king has now screwed me up. I now have an unecesary hurdle to face to make my business better.

EXAMPLE #2: You are driving down the road. Someone runs you off the side of the road and you have a terrible open wound that is bleeding out. The ambulance picks you up and figures you cannot last anymore than an hour in the condition you are in. 15 minutes goes by and you see the ambulance drive past a hospital and keeps on going. "HEY!" you say "We just passed the hospital! Im dying here!". thats when the ambulance workers tell you that the Hospital refuses to treat white people. The next closest hospital is about an hour away. congratulations...you are going to die.

Quote:1) end the "War on Terror"
2) end the "War on drugs"
3) Repeal TSA
4) Repeal Patriot Act

A list of the very FEW left leaning things that Paul supports..all of which he will have absolutely ZERO power to do. every single one of those would need the legislative branch to repeal. Since ron will be the only Libertarian in the system of a currently divided house and senate he would not be able to muster the support he needed to do such a thing. The president just cant up and say "Im stopping this war" that congress and the senate commanded him to do in the war on terror bill. He would, by law, have to fullfil his duty as president as prescribed in those bills and acts. The president cannot "end the war on drugs" nor can the president remove the dept of education, or the dept of energy, or the DEA. All of these would require congress to do such a thing.

As of 1979, the Office of Education had 3,000 employees and an annual budget of $12 billion. Congress appropriated to the Department of Education an annual budget of $14.2 billion and 17,000 employees when establishing the Department of Education.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Stat..._Education
In 1979, President Carter advocated for creating a cabinet-level Department of Education. Do you want to know why he ADVOCATED for this? Because he was the President. He cant just *poof* and make shit happen like that.

You see, this is why I consider Ron Paul followers to be as dumb as a box of rocks. They look at the office of Presidency as some sort of kingship or something. CONGRESS are the ones who make and break things in America. The Legislative branch aare the movers and shakers. The Judicial branch are the ones who enforce the legislations, and the executive branch are the ones who carry out (i.e. "execute") the orders and legislations of congress.

Most libertarians are just flat out butt dumb about how American government actually works.

this is why Ron Paul says this shit "Im going to shut down the department of education". He knows his followers dont know a damn thing about the system. ron paul just cant shut down the dept of education. He would be laughed at by congress and the senate. Then that would be it, and all of the ron Paul followers would be like "hey? Why didnt the dept of education get shut down?"

..because a president cant do that shit and they were all duped.
Ron Paul is a fucking liar!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXCZVmQ74OA
Lie #1 - Cut a trillion bucks year one - Who handles the economics in America? The President, or Congress? Answer - Congress.
Lie #2 - Dept of education gone - Who creates and shuts down departments in America? The president or Congress? Answer - Congress.
Lie #3 - Deps of Interior, energy, commerce, hud, gone - Who creates and shuts down governmental departments in American governent? The President, or Congress? Answer - Congress.
This entire advertise ment is one big lie. Ron Paul cannot do ANY of these things even if he was elected president.

Quote:Hitchslap wrote

But cmon, lets be real here the people who are bashing Ron the worst are his own political party contemporaries, not the voters.

Paul is running the Rep ticket because he has to play and compete in the political game. An Independent canditate is not going to win the presidency in 2012. BOTH parties are shit! It is put in place to divide Americans, not give us any real choice. How many times do voters not like either candidate running? It is always the lesser of two evils. Paul defends himself quite admirably in the Hardball interview about Civil Rights. He adamently explains his position repeatedly although Chris Matthews wants to be an arrogant, self righteous blowhard. Everyone on this site critcizes Paul, but do you ever provide a better, more realistic alternative?. NO. It seems like you all just like to bitch, complain and moan about the system but offer no real solutions. You take the easy PUSSY route all the time! WHAW, WHAW, WHAW! Grow some BALLS!! Look at the BIG picture, not you own tiny ,little dick!

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You like to categorize everyone into your own pigeonhole. Oh he is this, he is that! Listen to the man w/o trying to put a false label on the guy! Forget Right wing, Left wing, Republican, Democrat Bullshit! Quit sweating the small stuff! The most important issues Ron Paul is actually talking about and addressing headon! Mitt Romney is a complete TOOL! Obama is a clever deciever. Paul is for real. He is 76 years old!! What kind of ulterior motives could this old man possibly have?!?!?!?! He always speaks his heart out, but unfortunately.. Americans have very little heart left.

(February 3, 2012 at 10:11 pm)Herroimnathan Wrote: Okay you're still basically assuming im a republican

I don't really give a fuck what you are, if you're voting Republican we have nothing in common and since you cant vote, well, fuck yourself for even speaking on the matter. That's not to say I'm a Democrat either because I refuse to vote for corporote shills and since JFK we havn't had one..still waiting..

(February 3, 2012 at 9:35 pm)Herroimnathan Wrote: FUCKING STOP. Sorry, but it's annoying.

So is screaming in all caps, but I forgive you for being a hypocrite twice now.

(February 3, 2012 at 9:35 pm)Herroimnathan Wrote: I'm a moderate liberal. Dude im just realizing that i cant convince you to change your beliefs.

Who the fuck do you think you're talking to your religious father? The reason I became an Atheist was from changing my beliefs, so before you spew your conjectures about not being able to change people, realize that it may be you that needs to change.

(February 3, 2012 at 9:35 pm)Herroimnathan Wrote: So there is no point in arguing with you. You're stuck on obama,

Holy shit-bags you're a douche, please quote me saying I'm stuck on Obama or even sided with Obama, there isnt? ok then stop with the conjectures. In another thread I express my dislike for pretty much every political party we have and the lack of a political party with atheists in general. You just dont seem to realize Ron paul is a losing act, he wont even get past the other Republicans who are way crazier than we've seen before.

(February 3, 2012 at 9:35 pm)Herroimnathan Wrote: You won't even let me try to explain my case. You aren't reading any of my posts so I'm done trying to tell you the good things about ron paul. close-minded and ignorant. So whatever, go vote for Obama, Have fun living during a depression.

So because I dont like Paul I must be a Obama suporter, good call genius. You sound just like a religious asshole that says "atheists hate god" when thats the stupidest fucking argument ever. And newsflash we are in a depression... caused by Republicans.

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(February 3, 2012 at 11:53 pm)Bgood Wrote: Paul is running the Rep ticket because he has to play and compete in the political game.

Ron Paul is not even a Republican, he's so obviously a Libertarian and isnt true to himself by running with these douchebags. And look at the history of political parties my friend, they come and go with the zeitgeist and even though I'm not a Libertarian I predict they will probably take the place of the Republican party soon.

(February 3, 2012 at 11:53 pm)Bgood Wrote: An Independent canditate is not going to win the presidency in 2012.

If Ron Paul wanted to win, he probably should've, he wont even win the Republican vote, he's dead last.

(February 3, 2012 at 11:53 pm)Bgood Wrote: BOTH parties are shit!

Something we agree on, so dont vote for them, problem solved.

(February 3, 2012 at 11:53 pm)Bgood Wrote: It is put in place to divide Americans, not give us any real choice. How many times do voters not like either candidate running?

Historically, thats when a new political party pops up and takes over for the new ideas of that era. I can almost guarentee we will see a rise in another political party in the near future.

(February 3, 2012 at 11:53 pm)Bgood Wrote: It is always the lesser of two evils.

Terrible reason to vote, thats part of the problem and if you participate in those kinds of votes you are part of the problem when we as a people should've been coming up with new political parties with new policies that fit the times. We have to face facts that this shit doesnt work and get to work on real change.

(February 3, 2012 at 11:53 pm)Bgood Wrote: Everyone on this site critcizes Paul, but do you ever provide a better, more realistic alternative?. NO.

I'll refer to you my last answer. There's plenty of alternatives, people are just too fucking lazy to do things like start revolutions.

(February 3, 2012 at 11:53 pm)Bgood Wrote: It seems like you all just like to bitch, complain and moan about the system but offer no real solutions. You take the easy PUSSY route all the time! WHAW, WHAW, WHAW! Grow some BALLS!! Look at the BIG picture, not you own tiny ,little dick

Are you serious with this shit? How you think voting Ron Paul in office being the big change solution is beyong delusional, youve been sucked in by poetics, its a big game, its his way to get young people like yourself to vote for him. The fact that youre so gullible shows me that you have no capacity to think for yourself. For fuck sakes you believe in reincarnation, one of the stupdiest ideas ever, I guess youre going to morph into a frog if you were bad and morph into a lion if you were good? you believe in supernatural bullshit and youre telling people they complain about the system. Buddhism is part of a system somewhere else and they have the Dalhia Lama telling people after natural disasters that they died because they didnt pray to him enough, fuck your religion its just like the rest, just like Ron Paul is just like the rest of the corporate shills.

(February 3, 2012 at 11:53 pm)Bgood Wrote: You like to categorize everyone into your own pigeonhole. Oh he is this, he is that! Listen to the man w/o trying to put a false label on the guy! Forget Right wing, Left wing, Republican, Democrat Bullshit! Quit sweating the small stuff! The most important issues Ron Paul is actually talking about and addressing headon! Mitt Romney is a complete TOOL! Obama is a clever deciever. Paul is for real. He is 76 years old!! What kind of ulterior motives could this old man possibly have?!?!?!?! He always speaks his heart out, but unfortunately.. Americans have very little heart left.

You have as much faith as religious assholes, but since you are one I digress. Even if Ron Paul won, which we wont, he wouldnt turn the country around, how can you support a guy who wants to defund education and destroy the fucking EPA, youre a moron.

Quote:Hitchslap wrote

You have as much faith as religious assholes, but since you are one I digress. Even if Ron Paul won, which we wont, he wouldnt turn the country around, how can you support a guy who wants to defund education and destroy the fucking EPA, youre a moron.

I understand your pessimsim Hitchslap, it does seem futile to vote in a somewhat rigged system. I also undertand you antagonism toward religion. But I think there comes a point where one has to stop hatin the world and find some reconciliation and "faith" in that improvement can happen. It appears to me that you have alot of Fire and Intellect, which is admirable, but you want to quit and give up before you even give things a chance. Yes, the odds are stacked against Ron Paul, his supporters are well aware of that. Maybe that is a reason why we are so overzealous. Sorry, that is a human flaw for "believers". I don't think Paul wants to take funding away from such essentials as Education and Environmental Protection in and of themselves. What he is addressing is that alot of the funding that goes towards these departments is not properly distributed and regulated. Paul gives more power to the states and allows Americans the freedom to oversee these agencies in action. These agencies are great to have and support but what good are they if they are not working correctly or truly functioning in the way they are intended to. This is the whole problem. We as a nation have shitloads of revenue and money coming in through taxes but it goes into the pockets of corporations, Wall St financiers, and the great majority of what is left is lost in the overarching bureaucracy of federal government. If we cut gov spending on useless wars on terrorism and drugs, bullshit legislation and corp bailouts, then we have a whole lot of potential to be the kind of country that we all long for! Don't dwell in eternal pessimism, it is a self fulfilling dead end. So take what I said for what it's worth. I don't want to hear more whining and minimalism. Ease up on the sensational drama-queen bullshit and try to use that Fire and Intellect you own for something more positive and not for just tearing other optimistic minds down. And btw, Buddha still sees with compassionate and laughing eyes! And a reincarnated toad sits next to him with a smile too.