(February 13, 2012 at 9:58 am)Epimethean Wrote: The fact that you and so many others all imagine a boss-god, Kok, and the fact that so many of you see him/her/it as being different and going about its tasks in various ways should suggest something. The fact that it doesn't is unfortunate.

It does, one example when you become a parent you would dictate to your son and daughter what is right and what is wrong and at the same time they would differ from you or each other on the right and wrong that you define and indirectly you set standard for them and become a bos.

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(February 13, 2012 at 9:39 am)Rhythm Wrote:

(February 13, 2012 at 9:02 am)Koklanas Wrote: I am not wondering about the spirit, I am talking about the bad deeds. the game is not over, and case is closed just like that when your body stops working. T

The dead will be 'raised' and judged on the judgment Day by the creator. If no such a thing as ultimate justice then everyone would do bad thing to anyone whithout any fear for anything including the fear of punishment from the creator.

That explains why human came up with all sorts of restrictions and guide to define what is right and what is wrong and it became regarded as law.

Imagine living without law and order and no Supreme being. I am sure the earth population will becoming less and less since human will take revenge to kill one another, or killing for fun, since they have noothing to fear..

You believe that the dead will be "raised" and judged but you have no evidence that this is the case. I don't believe this, nor do I believe in ultimate judgement and yet I don't wander around stealing lollipops from little kids and raping women. I'm perfectly able to live a good life without any such belief, with no fear of judgement by your god or any god.

What explains why people came up with restrictions and guides? Your beliefs? In a roundabout sort of way yes, but not in the way that you believe it does.

I've been in areas with no law or order. Sucks. I don't have to imagine being in an area with no supreme being, I'm there right now, so are you. No imagination required. People do kill each other for revenge and for fun, and?

Whether or not you or I wish or hope that those who do bad things will be punished (even when they slip through our laws fingers) has nothing to do with whether or not they are. We've been over this.

People are "giving up" because you're repeating yourself, and because you aren't a particularly skillful apologist.

I am repeating myself because you and your friends' arguments dont make sense. Justice is basic human need just like food and oxygen. If you dont get it in this world then the Supreme being is there to ensure it happens in the next world. I can sleep well at night believing the is such an entity.

If you have been to a place with no law and order and no authority . then you would be able to judge if it is good or bad. Then at that time you start thinking of an entity of higher authority to put things into order.

If those bad people slips justice, then that is the proof of the need for higher being of the most just whoi is all-knowing


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You believe that the dead will be "raised" and judged but you have no evidence that this is the case. I don't believe this, nor do I believe in ultimate judgement and yet I don't wander around stealing lollipops from little kids and raping women. I'm perfectly able to live a good life without any such belief, with no fear of judgement by your god or any god.

.......

You are able to do so (live a good life...) because your parents (your boss) had thought you well when you were brought up,,, he had seta good standard of what is right and wrong until you become a learnt man.
Later in life your good life may go astray when you get into debt for example and you start going against the moral standard your parents thought and create your own standard you think is right, by stealing and what not.
That is the time you need another 'Boss' to bring back to the right moral standard which is ' the higher being'...

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Rhythm Wrote:


You believe that the dead will be "raised" and judged but you have no evidence that this is the case.

..............

The judgment day has not happened yet. I will show it to you when we meet there. When the Supremen being raised us both from death.

I cannot bring the future now since it is in the future.
et's wait until the cosmos become unstable an not in equilibrium and then other planet hits our planet and the world ends.

(February 13, 2012 at 10:06 am)Koklanas Wrote: Justice is basic human need just like food and oxygen. If you dont get it in this world then the Supreme being is there to ensure it happens in the next world. I can sleep well at night believing the is such an entity.

Just because something is a human need, does not mean it will be fulfilled. People need food and water, but not everyone gets it. Similarly, people may need justice, that does not mean they'd get it.

What you have given here is the reason for inventing this story of "getting justice in the next world". People would sleep easier if they believed that there is an entity which provides justice in the next world - that does not make the existence of that entity true. As a comparison - I'll sleep much easier tonight if I believed that I'd win a million bucks in lottery tomorrow. That does not mean that I'm going to win.

(February 13, 2012 at 10:06 am)Koklanas Wrote: If you dont get it in this world then the Supreme being is there to ensure it happens in the next world. I can sleep well at night believing the is such an entity.

This is nothing more than wishful thinking on your part, there is no evidence that this is the case. You believe it to be true, but that is no basis for us to believe it to be true. Again you are making an ought into an is.

Quote:If you have been to a place with no law and order and no authority . then you would be able to judge if it is good or bad. Then at that time you start thinking of an entity of higher authority to put things into order.

I'm not buying that for a second, but suppose I do, how does me thinking about an entity of higher authority make this entity a reality?

Quote:That is the time you need another 'Boss' to bring back to the right moral standard which is ' the higher being'...

Careful here, you are entering the realm of preaching, keep it on topic, don't tell other members what they "need" in their lives. You have yet to make a case that such a thing is needed, let alone exists.

(February 13, 2012 at 10:06 am)Koklanas Wrote: You are able to do so (live a good life...) because your parents (your boss) had thought you well when you were brought up,,, he had seta good standard of what is right and wrong until you become a learnt man.
Later in life your good life may go astray when you get into debt for example and you start going against the moral standard your parents thought and create your own standard you think is right, by stealing and what not.
That is the time you need another 'Boss' to bring back to the right moral standard which is ' the higher being'...

As I said before and I will say again and keep saying till you admit morals are not from your brutal sky warlord Allah, you're an amoral animal if you only do good for reward and avoid doing bad cause you fear punishment.

(February 13, 2012 at 10:52 am)genkaus Wrote:

(February 13, 2012 at 10:06 am)Koklanas Wrote: Justice is basic human need just like food and oxygen. If you dont get it in this world then the Supreme being is there to ensure it happens in the next world. I can sleep well at night believing the is such an entity.

Just because something is a human need, does not mean it will be fulfilled. People need food and water, but not everyone gets it. Similarly, people may need justice, that does not mean they'd get it.

What you have given here is the reason for inventing this story of "getting justice in the next world". People would sleep easier if they believed that there is an entity which provides justice in the next world - that does not make the existence of that entity true. As a comparison - I'll sleep much easier tonight if I believed that I'd win a million bucks in lottery tomorrow. That does not mean that I'm going to win.

If you dont get what you need (food , job, water, son, daughter... etc) then it means that Supreme being is saying to you 'work harder! or 'do more good deeds!', 'help the poor', 'respect your mother' etc.

I mean your dont expect to recover from any sickness of you dont take medicine. You dont expect too live long if you your self smoke, One thing leads to another!

Believe me his reward will come to you in a very mysterious way. May be ... Out of no where you may grow old until the age of 100 without stroke, or the almighty savse you from a plane crash, or you winning a lottery!...

(February 13, 2012 at 11:11 am)Koklanas Wrote: Believe me his reward will come to you in a very mysterious way.

Are you fucking dense? A mod just told you quit the fucking preaching.

As I said before and I will say again and keep saying till you admit morals are not from your brutal sky warlord Allah, you're an amoral animal if you only do good for reward and avoid doing bad cause you fear punishment.

(February 13, 2012 at 11:11 am)Koklanas Wrote: Believe me his reward will come to you in a very mysterious way.

Cut it out with the preaching, seriously.

Quote:May be ... Out of no where you may grow old until the age of 100 without stroke, or the almighty savse you from a plane crash, or you winning a lottery!...

This happens to both people who do believe in the same almighty as you do, and to people who believe in Shiva, Zarathustra, Buddha, Baal, or no one at all. Random things will happen to random people, it is not evidence of any divine hand at work.

(February 13, 2012 at 11:15 am)Phil Wrote:

(February 13, 2012 at 11:11 am)Koklanas Wrote: Believe me his reward will come to you in a very mysterious way.

Are you fucking dense? A mod just told you quit the fucking preaching.

As I said before and I will say again and keep saying till you admit morals are not from your brutal sky warlord Allah, you're an amoral animal if you only do good for reward and avoid doing bad cause you fear punishment.

I am replying to genkaus. I am not preaching just explaining my point of view.

(February 13, 2012 at 11:22 am)Koklanas Wrote:

(February 13, 2012 at 11:15 am)Phil Wrote:

(February 13, 2012 at 11:11 am)Koklanas Wrote: Believe me his reward will come to you in a very mysterious way.

Are you fucking dense? A mod just told you quit the fucking preaching.

As I said before and I will say again and keep saying till you admit morals are not from your brutal sky warlord Allah, you're an amoral animal if you only do good for reward and avoid doing bad cause you fear punishment.

I am replying to genkaus. I am not preaching just explaining my point of view.

No, you are preaching at genkaus and I would advise you to stop it now!

(February 13, 2012 at 11:22 am)Koklanas Wrote:

(February 13, 2012 at 11:15 am)Phil Wrote:

(February 13, 2012 at 11:11 am)Koklanas Wrote: Believe me his reward will come to you in a very mysterious way.

Are you fucking dense? A mod just told you quit the fucking preaching.

As I said before and I will say again and keep saying till you admit morals are not from your brutal sky warlord Allah, you're an amoral animal if you only do good for reward and avoid doing bad cause you fear punishment.

I am replying to genkaus. I am not preaching just explaining my point of view.

Don't matter to whom you replied...cut the fucking preaching as the mod said TWICE. Then again, I fully expect you to continue so before you get banned you can post ALLAH AKBAR.

As I said before and I will say again and keep saying till you admit morals are not from your brutal sky warlord Allah, you're an amoral animal if you only do good for reward and avoid doing bad cause you fear punishment.