Quote:Why do i need to read them? All they will do is argue that somehow their "race" gives them a "right" over the land. they dont own that land. Look at your long drawn out history post of how the land has been renamed this and that, and you dont agree with it being this or that...

YOU...CANT....OWN...LAND...

therefore nationalism is just like believing in god...it is a delusion.

We do have a right over this land by the right of the sword. If anyone thinks that they can throw us out, let them try as they did before. We came here a thousands years ago, and have ousted the multitudes of others to earn our place here. These lands have been our primary base in all our battles and raids all over Europe, Asia and the Meditteranian. Who now will claim that this is not our land? If someone lays such a claim they first must beat us to the ground, and then proclaim that we cannot own this land. We do.
And hell if I care that these lands have been renamed and beset by many nations in the past. What only counts is that these did not make it.

Quote:Let me guess: ALLAH gave you those lands?

amiright?

did your imaginary friend tell you that you own those lands? No? So you are claiming a "racial" tie to the land? How does your "race" give you claim to that land?

Like I said before..nationalism is a sickness. Thinking that you own land is a delusion. Mehmet, you are sorely ignorant and delusional.

We did. I've already explained it on my reply above. We've faced many hardships trying to assert our control and ownership. It is rightfully ours.
Call it a delusion, while you hold on to the deed of your house, your car keys, or whatever you think that belongs to you. If you can own these, you can own land by the right of your power.
The state gives you legal rights on the house you live in. The people give you the rights to live on the lands that your house now occupies.
You do not need nationalism to tell you this. However, you need nationalism to hold on to the idea that you're a nation in the first place.

Let me explain: the poles did not have a country of their own for many years. Boundaries might change, demographics, might change. But the idea of a nation does remain. Why on earth have the poles held on to the notion of having their own nation, even though they were under German rule? Due to nationalism. Madame Curie who was a Pole named an element after her people, and the country that was annexed by the German empire long ago.
As you see, nationalism is nothing but an elementary emotion, a real sense of belonging that people feel and share with eachother.

Quote:Really? Besides an alpha males forced ability to rape as many females as he wants, exactly where do you find heirarchy in nature? The queen of a hive isnt even seen to have authority. She is a prisoner of forced rape and reproduction. I suggest you get an education about these things before you try to hold a conversation about them and make yourself look more of an ass than you already do.

Really really?
Let's see. The existence of an alpha female, like for example in a lion pride, where she coordinates the movements of her collegues in a hunt?
The hive queen was not an example that I had in mind, but the notion of hierarchy was born out of "the survival of the fittest", and usually the strongest individual expressed dominance over the others, and many animals, mostly great apes have been shown to have complex social structures and forms of hierarchy and leadership.
I guess you don't read much, you're just blinded by your stupid ideal of some dreamland, as to actually reflect this ideal to nature, where it prevails, even if in a very primitive form.

Quote:humanity

Humanity? Who is that?

Quote:With no heirarchy, then freedom has been acheived. Insert a heirarchy and freedom has been removed. You are delusional and have been convinced that slavery equals freedom.

Break your chains.

The concept of freedom you have is the delusion, which cannot be archived without some sort of institution that provides order.
And this can only be archived via a hierarchy, where orders are given, received and carried out. If you tell me to go and simply work in the waterworks in the city, and if I don't feel like working at that day, I might simply not.
Who is going to tell me that I must work? Who will pay me for my efforts?
What exactly am I going to buy with whatever they pay me?
You set before me a hypothetical "paradise", which rather sounds like it's been out of some holy book, and expect me to believe that it will bring freedom, rather than barbarism?

Quote:Have you been paying attention? There is no such thing as "property". It is a delusion. You dont own it. Nobody can own it.

Then I figure that you will not go to the police if someone steals from your house, or if someone asks you your wallet?
I don't own it, you can have it?
Or take it if you can?
If nobody can own it, then someone has to own it and distribute it to the people. And that happens in communism, the only way it's going to happen, ever.

Quote:Most nationalists will kill their elderly because they see them as a drain on society.

Look how he distributes false information. I wonder where you got this, nationalists are always very respectful of their elders, and take care of them the best way they can. I don't know where you shat this out, but it's hilarious.

Quote:Look at the racism come out of this one. Racist fascist who hints at genocide. You fucking disgust me.

Hints at genocide? Where? But true, in the world, one only trusts the ones of his own blood at first, which is why there are ethnic enclaves even in a country like the USA.

Like the Orkhun inscriptions read:"Return to thyself, Turk, as you do that, you shall become strong."

And like our founder Atatürk has said, "The might you need is within the noble blood within your veins."
We have placed our trust into our own kindred, our own blood.

Quote:right...LOL...because nationalism has NOTHING to do with imperialism...LOL...

Actually, imperialism is the polar opposite of nationalism.
If you look at how the British, French and Ottoman empire has split up, you will see a long range of nationalistic uprisings.
Gandhi was a prominent indian nationalist, for example, he aided in the foundation of a country which was based on the name of his own nation, in a land called "India". He aided into the creation of a national industry, ousted the fabric of the foreign, imperialist english, and was quite sympathetic to our own nationalist goals of independence and national awakening.
If you think that nationalism has something to do with imperialism, outside the fact that nationalism is the opposite of imperialism, you also must hate Gandhi, for he proposed the creation of an Indian nation, independent from the British, in their own country.

Quote:I am of your blood. Everyone on this planet is of your blood. You are a scientific illiterate.

No, you are not. The fact that we're both homo saphiens does not change the fact that I'm not of you, and you're not of me.

Quote:Right...because Jesus, er, I mean Allah granted your people the ownership of the land. Yet strangely turks have not been able to keep it. Gee, I wonder why?

Maybe because they dont own it?

Keep it? We do keep it right now. In fact, we've been holding on it for like a thousand years, and have seen countless invasions, opposition and a world war and a treaty that was aimed to dismember our people by splitting us up. But we're still here, friend.
We aren't going anywhere, instead, we will unite to become more stronger than ever.

Quote:Oh, I see. It isnt because of Allah or blood...its because your people have pissed all over Turkey. That makes it yours.
Last I checked animals piss on everything and consider everything their property...just like you consider Turkey your property...yet you call ME a savage.
Fascism and racism sucks a donkey dick

It's as you said it, it's name is Türkiye, which means the land of Turks. Meaning, it's the land of the Turks. Can the name be any more descriptive?
Our people have paid for these lands with their blood, and the blood of their enemies.
I do not call you a savage, I call you a "noble savage", for you fit the description of the "noble savage" type of a red indian that was prominent in fictious stories about red indians, that they supposedly did not lay claim on land. Well, they did, like all humans did, fought and died for land.
But at the end, the strong always prevail. Our people are strong, and we have prevailed in the lands of Turan. Our only weakness is that we're divided for the moment, but will reunite, and hopefully, bring about a new golden age.

Is verbal diarrea also protected under freedom of speech?

Quote:We do have a right over this land by the right of the sword. If anyone thinks that they can throw us out, let them try as they did before. We came here a thousands years ago, and have ousted the multitudes of others to earn our place here.

And you call us anarchists "barbarians". We live and let live and try to get along. You, on the other hand, draw your sword and usurp our freedom in the name of a thousand year half assed claim.

If what you say is true then I can draw a sword and claim ownership of it as well, but why do such when I can live amongst you and throw monkey wrenches in everything you plan and do. Your machinery of control will not last, just like the others who have come and gone before you. You cannot beat anarchy.

Quote:Who now will claim that this is not our land? If someone lays such a claim they first must beat us to the ground, and then proclaim that we cannot own this land. We do.

So you own it huh? How many names has it had before? Im sure you can tell me as you cringe at its past nominations, its past "owners", and now you make a claim to it as well. So many people are making claims to mounds of dirt and sand and are willing to shed blood and kill man woman elder and infant over their delusions when instead they could be living in peace and egalitarianism. You have a chance to rise above such putrid conceptions and I know you are intelligent enough to understand my words. Stop being part of the problem and open your heart and mind to those different from you.

Quote:Call it a delusion, while you hold on to the deed of your house, your car keys, or whatever you think that belongs to you. If you can own these, you can own land by the right of your power.

I dont own them regardless of title or deed. They are mrely liabilities to me. If someone can own land by "right" of power, then I am still correct and justified in saying that nobody owns anything. There is always someone stronger than you, and more cunning.

Quote:The concept of freedom you have is the delusion, which cannot be archived without some sort of institution that provides order.

You are sorely addicted to the bureaucracy. How sad. And you are even willing to extend such delusion upon nature itself.

Quote:And this can only be archived via a hierarchy, where orders are given, received and carried out.

And one Molotov cocktail will destroy all of it. The lions pride, on the other hand, is an example of natural order WITHOUT government or heirarchy. A temporary leader doe not a heirarchy make. It is merely a moment of time which can change in the swift stroke of a claw.

Quote:You set before me a hypothetical "paradise", which rather sounds like it's been out of some holy book, and expect me to believe that it will bring freedom, rather than barbarism?

Never once on this forum have i described anarchy as a paradise. And speaking of barbarism, you are the one who is willing to ethnic cleanse and force totalitarianism and draw your pussy ass sword out. Some are trained to walk in without a weapon and take YOURS from you and use it against you. Go right ahead and try to work your way in. It costs you twice as much to attack than it does to defend. And when you attack, then hey! You are supplying your enemy with food and weapons they can steal from you at a discount of labor. What do you think the anarchists will use? You damn right they will be using your weapons to fight against you and eating your food. They use the enemy.

Quote:Then I figure that you will not go to the police if someone steals from your house, or if someone asks you your wallet?

Why the fuck would I call the police unless I absolutely had too? Im not fucking stupid. I highly suggest that NOBODY call the police unless they had too, because the police are all about making money. Our jails are privatised, and our police make promotions based on the amount of tickets and arrests they make. FUCK THE POLICE! I only call them when it is the best choice to do so to cover my ass. Dont let the police in your home, and dont trust the fuckers because they have been known to kill and maim and get off scott free.

If someone asks for my wallet? Really? Are we going the juvinile route again Mehmet?

Quote:Look how he distributes false information. I wonder where you got this, nationalists are always very respectful of their elders, and take care of them the best way they can. I don't know where you shat this out, but it's hilarious.

Except for the Italian Fascists, and the German Fascists, and..well...just about every other fascist group that was planning on an imperialistic world domination. So far America hasnt gotten to that point, but quite a few on the right have been applauding the idea of letting people who cant afford health care die off.

Quote:Hints at genocide? Where?

Here...

mehme Wrote:Foolish as to trust people who have no blood association with eachother to watch eachother's backs? Nationalism is the cure to the world's problems.

Its a "cure". Trust only blood (racial ties). Yeah, you hint at genocide. You are one step away from decimating an entire block just on their skin or tradition from the views you hold, you fucking disgust me.

Quote:No, you are not. The fact that we're both homo saphiens does not change the fact that I'm not of you, and you're not of me.

Yes I am of your blood. I am 0- (0 negative) type blood. If you were dying, it is guarenteed that my blood will save your life even though I am a dispised non-turk to you.

Quote:It's as you said it, it's name is Türkiye, which means the land of Turks. Meaning, it's the land of the Turks. Can the name be any more descriptive?

No, I said "Turkey", as in land of the Turkey's. A name does not cement a racial claim of a land. You still do not own it

does every speck of dust have the name "turkey" on it? Even then, it is still not proof of ownership you tool.

Quote:I do not call you a savage, I call you a "noble savage", for you fit the description of the "noble savage" type of a red indian that was prominent in fictious stories about red indians, that they supposedly did not lay claim on land. Well, they did, like all humans did, fought and died for land.

Who gives a shit about your subtleties...not I. The ways of our natives are much more intricate than you put it out. Many tribes even had non-violent wars over who got the spring produce of certain lands. Some came together and helped each other. They werent savage. You, the one who is willing to pull the sword for names and government...you are the savage.

You know....every time I see this thread i can't help but to reply


"On my own two feet"


Now back to your usual programming

(March 18, 2012 at 3:28 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: You know....every time I see this thread i can't help but to reply


"On my own two feet"


Now back to your usual programming

On my head...

Well,
Anarcho capitalism would lead to the rich oppressing the poor, and the coporations would seize control of government and create their own fascist state. Same would happen with liberatrianism.

(March 19, 2012 at 7:35 am)Aldrich Wrote: Well,
Anarcho capitalism would lead to the rich oppressing the poor, and the coporations would seize control of government and create their own fascist state.

"Would"?
Afaik you're describing the current status quo.

Both anarcho-capitalism and Libertarianism take the power away from the corporations and give it back to the consumers. The rich would only be able to oppress the poor if the rest of society allowed it (by supporting the rich through business). Corporations would be unable to take control of government due to government either not existing, or government being so powerless it cannot be affected by any one group of people (but rather, only the majority).

I shouldn't even reply to you, as you're clearly bent on only deliberately misinterpretating my words, but well.
I've already said too much regarding this subject to people like you, who cannot be expected to understand the tenets of nationalism, nor the concept of a "nation".

Quote:And you call us anarchists "barbarians". We live and let live and try to get along. You, on the other hand, draw your sword and usurp our freedom in the name of a thousand year half assed claim.

You live and let live, is that it?
So, how are you going to bring forth your "anarchist revolution"?
I guess you won't, as you obviously lack a collective consciousness.
We draw our sword, and we conquer lands for our own wellbeing. If we did not expand, we would not even be alive to practice your philosophy of "live and let live", to which we also adhere.
And "your freedom"? This is why you invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, isn't it?
Your president said that the Iraqis and Afghans hate your freedom, which is why you flocked to the ranks of the army to fight in foreign lands?
Where is live and let live?
You die and kill, this is the tenet of your nation so far. Your anarchist principles nor your way of life(if you have any) done, so far, nothing to prevent it, on the other hand, you still live out it's benefits. Hypocrite.

Quote:So you own it huh? How many names has it had before? Im sure you can tell me as you cringe at its past nominations, its past "owners", and now you make a claim to it as well. So many people are making claims to mounds of dirt and sand and are willing to shed blood and kill man woman elder and infant over their delusions when instead they could be living in peace and egalitarianism. You have a chance to rise above such putrid conceptions and I know you are intelligent enough to understand my words. Stop being part of the problem and open your heart and mind to those different from you.

I can tell you about it's past owners, their names, their culture and their traditions, religions and lifestyle. I've extensively researched Anatolian history and cultures, and I know much about it.
And I'm certain that you never saw the lands of Turan as to think that they are mounds of sand and dirt, so I won't even bother explaining things to your ignorance-filled mind.
We've made our claims on these lands a long, long time ago, when the first raiding parties of Huns have ventured into these lands. Others have left Balbals and inscriptions here, and the Oghuz Turks under the leadership of the illustrious Alp Arslan followed him to these lands in search for new pastures to feed their herds-and themselves.
Ever since, this land was known as the land of Turks. Many others have tried to take these away from us. Crusaders, Persians and lastly, the western imperial assholes, whom all failed their task to ship us back to Asia.
There is a saying, "Blood, is what makes a flag, a flag, and earth is only a country if there are people willing to die for it."
Meaning, these lands are ours, because we're willing to give our lives in defense of it.

Quote:I dont own them regardless of title or deed. They are mrely liabilities to me. If someone can own land by "right" of power, then I am still correct and justified in saying that nobody owns anything. There is always someone stronger than you, and more cunning.

Then discard them, if you see them as liabilities.
Why live on them? You're still not right, as this is where the law and government comes in. They are there to protect your rights on the land you live on, as long as your claims are in accordance with the law.
Take the gov. and law away, then, you'd have your perfect world-anarchy, where someone will come and chase you away from your home, with no one really caring, as they do not want to get in the way of that powerful someone.

Your world only seems like a fallout 2 scenario, and even there, there are organisations, governments and laws.

Quote:You are sorely addicted to the bureaucracy. How sad. And you are even willing to extend such delusion upon nature itself.

I'm not extending this to nature. Nature has extended it upon us. Without order, without a government, and it's ruling bodies to watch over order, there cannot be harmony. There will only be chaos, ruin and destruction.

Quote:And one Molotov cocktail will destroy all of it. The lions pride, on the other hand, is an example of natural order WITHOUT government or heirarchy. A temporary leader doe not a heirarchy make. It is merely a moment of time which can change in the swift stroke of a claw.

Well, it is an example of a natural order without government, because some animals are not sophisticated enough to carry out this type of organisation. However, lets take a look at the nests with which you criticized me with, saying that the queen is -not the queen-, however, she doesn't have to be. There exists a social order, and a rule quite akin to a government, even though it more closely resembles a form of communism.

Quote:Never once on this forum have i described anarchy as a paradise. And speaking of barbarism, you are the one who is willing to ethnic cleanse and force totalitarianism and draw your pussy ass sword out. Some are trained to walk in without a weapon and take YOURS from you and use it against you. Go right ahead and try to work your way in. It costs you twice as much to attack than it does to defend. And when you attack, then hey! You are supplying your enemy with food and weapons they can steal from you at a discount of labor. What do you think the anarchists will use? You damn right they will be using your weapons to fight against you and eating your food. They use the enemy.

If it isn't a paradise, it won't work. Only perfect conditions could make this dream of yours come true, and without it, it'd turn into simple barbarism, nothing more.

Besides, I don't think that anarchists are able to use anything at all. Without real coordination, what exactly do you hope to archieve? I'd really like to see your silly little revolution happening in the US, but such stupid things will not see the light in the lands of Turan.

Quote:Why the fuck would I call the police unless I absolutely had too? Im not fucking stupid. I highly suggest that NOBODY call the police unless they had too, because the police are all about making money. Our jails are privatised, and our police make promotions based on the amount of tickets and arrests they make. FUCK THE POLICE! I only call them when it is the best choice to do so to cover my ass. Dont let the police in your home, and dont trust the fuckers because they have been known to kill and maim and get off scott free.

If someone asks for my wallet? Really? Are we going the juvinile route again Mehmet?

Well, our jails are not privatized, nor does our police force earns money from writing tickets and etc. Well, some are corrupt enough to be in on the drug trade, and other smuggling operations, but outside of that, the police are there to keep order and peace.
And I knew you were going to start spouting generic slogans and other types of stupid propaganda with no basis.

Quote:Except for the Italian Fascists, and the German Fascists, and..well...just about every other fascist group that was planning on an imperialistic world domination. So far America hasnt gotten to that point, but quite a few on the right have been applauding the idea of letting people who cant afford health care die off.

Except for who? In our culture, the elderly are respected, and taken care of. If the germans and italians have no such cultural tendencies, their forms of nationalism won't either.
There isn't even a single person in my family who has lived out the rest of his/her days in a old people's home. They have all died in their own homes, with me, my sister, and my other relatives taking care of them.
Even though we do not adhere to the same principles, my family are nationalists, we love our nation and everyone who constitutes it, although we do have certain differences on who constitutes the Turkish nation, that's it.
You're spreading misinformation, by stating that nationalists oppose public healthcare and taking care of the elderly.
We're not capitalists, as capitalism opposes nations as much as communism does.

Quote:Its a "cure". Trust only blood (racial ties). Yeah, you hint at genocide. You are one step away from decimating an entire block just on their skin or tradition from the views you hold, you fucking disgust me.

Well, let's ask the "other block" as you'd say it.
Who would they rather trust? Their own kin? Or me?
It is foolish to trust an ethnic minority unless they have been fully cut off from the source of their national pride or consciousness(assimilation).
Time and history has proven this to be correct, and we are experiencing the pain of this firsthand, with over 6000 of our soldiers, all brave Turks, dead at the hand of seperatist terrorists(who have lost more than 20000 of their feeble numbers), over the course of 28 years. Now, this makes over 26000 of people dead. Ethnic loyalties are strong everywhere on earth. This is a fact of life. My loyalties lie with the Turkish race. No matter who threatens my race, threatens me. I would avoid unnecessary bloodshed and trauma if I could, as this requires means of manpower, money, and facing international pressure, but if my own people are targeted, and hunted by another people, I will make sure that they receive their proper reward. Call this whatever you will.

Quote:Yes I am of your blood. I am 0- (0 negative) type blood. If you were dying, it is guarenteed that my blood will save your life even though I am a dispised non-turk to you.

Are you a Turk? No. The fact that your blood type (mine is 0+) can "save my life", doesn't mean that I am of your "kin". This is what I mean by "of my blood", it's simply a metaphor if you are too stupid to realize this.

Quote:No, I said "Turkey", as in land of the Turkey's. A name does not cement a racial claim of a land. You still do not own it

does every speck of dust have the name "turkey" on it? Even then, it is still not proof of ownership you tool.

No, but the majority of the people who live here are Turks, and have been so for the past 1000 years.
I think this is enough for me to count these lands amongst Turan.
Besides, I do not make much of names like "Türkiye", "Azerbaycan", "Türkmenistan" or the rest of the names we have for other countries within Turan. I simply call all of them Turan, and know that I'm home, wherever Turan's borders reach into.
You cannot understand this sense of belonging, and this sense off consciousness.

Quote:Who gives a shit about your subtleties...not I. The ways of our natives are much more intricate than you put it out. Many tribes even had non-violent wars over who got the spring produce of certain lands. Some came together and helped each other. They werent savage. You, the one who is willing to pull the sword for names and government...you are the savage.

I am willing to pull the swords for the name of my people. Governments come and go, one type comes in, the other type goes. I pull my sword out only for the defense of my people. And the people are the government. They are your police force, your army, your civil servants, the ones who keep your water, your electricity running.
The fact that you hate the government does not rule out the necessity of a state.

Savagery comes into play when they come into a land like the Romans once did, break the people, salt the earth, and leave.
Yes, we did acts of savagery, just like the Romans did. Attila the Hun raised many cities, villages and other places to the ground, just for them to be an example to others who might stand before his might. So did Chingiss Khan, and his descendants.
However, in war, especially, in the older times, such things were simply a tool, a tool towards whatever goal you had set before you, for Attila, it was to conquer Rome, for Chingiss, it was to conquer Earth. Each and every great man of Turan had his own red apple(ideal), and used the measures he deemed necessary to archive this ideal.
But they had an ideal. They did not simply come in for the sake of stripping the lands of it's riches.
You lack an ideal, and the will to do whatever it's necessary to fulfill that ideal. Therefore, any act you, or your same simple minded comrades will bring forward will be leaned towards simple barbaric and base actions.

That's funny, you start by writing

(March 19, 2012 at 8:41 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: I shouldn't even reply to you,

And then you continue with a 2,300 word treatise.