(April 21, 2012 at 5:13 pm)Jireh Wrote: Please present positive arguments why you think atheism is true

that means : present a case which explains why you think the best explanation for our existence requires only naturalism .

No bible bashing etc...... which would be a negative argument.

Atheism doesn't make any claims, therefore there's nothing that is being said to be 'true' as such. I simply believe in one less god than you.

This is how I see my position:

As a free thinker, I'm willing to jump right into your religion, provided you can show me logically the pathway from A to B. For Christianity, this pathway would be from what the Bible states to how it can be shown through historical means that the Biblical Son of God walked amongst us. This would prove that the claims of the Bible are within the realms of reality and not something apart i.e. a myth.

As you can see, your side is claiming something to be true. All I claim is that I don't see how it's true.

(April 21, 2012 at 8:38 pm)Jireh Wrote: Strong atheism claims, that God most probably does not exist.

Where is the positive evidence ?

There isn't any. That's why I'm not a strong atheist.

(April 22, 2012 at 12:19 am)Tiberius Wrote:

(April 21, 2012 at 8:38 pm)Jireh Wrote: Strong atheism claims, that God most probably does not exist.

Where is the positive evidence ?

There isn't any. That's why I'm not a strong atheist.

You mean there is a possibility there is a god as described in the bible that exists? Please explain.

Quote:You mean there is a possibility there is a god as described in the bible that exists,

A possibility? Of course, just as it's possible for trolls,dragons, fairies and Russell's teapot to exist, and just as likely.

Absence of evidence implies (suggests) actual absence, but it is NOT proof of absence.

The existence of gods is perhaps the greatest mystery because so far,nobody has yet managed to prove or disprove his/her/their existence. All I am able to assert is "I do not believe in gods,due to the lack of credible evidence" I am in no position to claim "there is no god" because I cannot prove that claim. I am unable to assert "I believe there is no god" because that is untrue,I simply disbelieve. I may be wrong,no matter how unlikely I think that might be.


My position is the same as that stated by Richard Dawkins. (6.9 out of 7 sure) It makes no practical difference; I LIVE as if there are no god(s). I take full responsibility for my own actions, accepting life is indifferent and that I am in no way 'special'.

(April 22, 2012 at 12:57 am)padraic Wrote:

Quote:You mean there is a possibility there is a god as described in the bible that exists,

A possibility? Of course, just as it's possible for trolls,dragons, fairies and Russell's teapot to exist, and just as likely.

Absence of evidence implies (suggests) actual absence, but it is NOT proof of absence.

The existence of gods is perhaps the greatest mystery because so far,nobody has yet managed to prove or disprove his/her/their existence. All I am able to assert is "I do not believe in gods,due to the lack of credible evidence" I am in no position to claim "there is no god" because I cannot prove that claim. I am unable to assert "I believe there is no god" because that is untrue,I simply disbelieve. I may be wrong,no matter how unlikely I think that might be.

Explain how a god that breaks scientific laws (those are explanations of reality) and is defined by a mass of logical contradictions is possible to exist.

(April 22, 2012 at 12:33 am)Phil Wrote: You mean there is a possibility there is a god as described in the bible that exists? Please explain.

No, that isn't what I mean. The concept of "God" goes far beyond that of the Christian one. I'm an agnostic atheist because there are no arguments that I've come across which disprove the existence of some kind of supernatural deity who is responsible for creating the universe.

(April 22, 2012 at 1:10 am)Tiberius Wrote:

(April 22, 2012 at 12:33 am)Phil Wrote: You mean there is a possibility there is a god as described in the bible that exists? Please explain.

No, that isn't what I mean. The concept of "God" goes far beyond that of the Christian one. I'm an agnostic atheist because there are no arguments that I've come across which disprove the existence of some kind of supernatural deity who is responsible for creating the universe.

That I agree with however your reply was to Jireh and he was referring to the god of the bible not a deistic or undefined god. Truth be told, when a god is defined fully, there hasn't been one that could not be disproven.

(April 22, 2012 at 1:15 am)Phil Wrote: That I agree with however your reply was to Jireh and he was referring to the god of the bible not a deistic or undefined god. Truth be told, when a god is defined fully, there hasn't been one that could not be disproven.

Where did he refer to the God of the Bible in his quote?

(April 21, 2012 at 8:38 pm)Jireh Wrote: Strong atheism claims, that God most probably does not exist.

Where is the positive evidence ?

(April 22, 2012 at 1:17 am)Tiberius Wrote:

(April 22, 2012 at 1:15 am)Phil Wrote: That I agree with however your reply was to Jireh and he was referring to the god of the bible not a deistic or undefined god. Truth be told, when a god is defined fully, there hasn't been one that could not be disproven.

Where did he refer to the God of the Bible in his quote?

(April 21, 2012 at 8:38 pm)Jireh Wrote: Strong atheism claims, that God most probably does not exist.

Where is the positive evidence ?

Never said it was in his quote. I said he was referring to the god of the bible. Maybe you don't know his screenname Jirah refers to Jehovah Jirah who is the god of the bible. If that isn't enough, his religious views are stated as evangelical Christian. Why would you think he is referring to a deistic type of god?

(April 22, 2012 at 1:22 am)Phil Wrote: Never said it was in his quote. I said he was referring to the god of the bible. Maybe you don't know his screenname Jirah refers to Jehovah Jirah who is the god of the bible. If that isn't enough, his religious views are stated as evangelical Christian. Why would you think he is referring to a deistic type of god?

Unlike yourself, I don't make assumptions about what people are talking about. People who name themselves after Jehovah are perfectly capable of talking about the philosophical concept of God. Evangelical Christians are perfectly capable of talking about the philosophical concept of God.

He never mentioned any God by name or religion; he merely stated an (accurate) definition of strong atheism. That's what I based my response on.