(April 22, 2012 at 11:35 am)Jireh Wrote:

(April 22, 2012 at 11:33 am)Minimalist Wrote: We do not need to make a "case for atheism."

because strong atheists do believe, most probably no God(s) exist. Therefore they need to provide positive evidence to back up their claim.

Have any ?

Try to get this through your thick, fucking, jesus-soaked head. Mankind has created thousands upon thousands of "gods" ( including yours ). There has never been any tangible evidence for any of them.

Observing this fact and concluding that delusional shitheads like you have no evidence to substantiate their claims is not "a belief." The sun will rise in the east tomorrow morning. This is not a belief. It is an accumulation of observations from every day of my life.

I will not ask you if you understand. You obviously cannot. So go shove your head back in your fucking bible and go play with your invisible friend, jesus.

Idiot.

The complete and utter failure of anyone that claims a god exists to provide evidence to support that claim suggests that no gods are likely to exist. My claim is self supported.

(April 22, 2012 at 6:42 am)Jireh Wrote: If God does not exist, good and evyl cannot exist.

Correct. Good and "evyl" do not exist. There are only varying levels of wellbeing and harm. Generally speaking, actions are judged against how much of each they create, with those causing more harm than welllbeing adjudged wrong, bad or evil.

Quote:Everything is relative, and you set your morals, according to your preferences.

Oops, sorry but no. We, all of us including you, set our morals according to the society in which we are brought up, with a dash of natural empathy for flavour. We humans are a social species with thousands of years of co-existence under our collective belts. Which is why those who act against society's rules, be they housebreakers or child molesters, are rounded up and isolated from society. It's not the be-all and end-all, of course, but it's nowhere near the fairy tale that we do what we feel like because we don't have a pet god in a box to tell us not to do things.

Quote:There is nobody that can say, you are wrong and right.

Other than our own consciences, family, friends, law enforcement, society at large, then you have a point. Under your hat.

Quote:If Hitler thought, he was right in doing, what he did, who can tell him, that is not true, he was wrong ?

The combined forces of Britain, America, France, Russia, Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Canada, China, Denmark, Greece, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, South Africa and Yugoslavia. Not to mention all the brave men and women from Axis nations who chose to risk, and in many cases lose, their lives fighting for the Allied cause. (And I'm sure there are others around here more history-savvy than I am who are going to pounce on me mercilessly after this).

Really, this simplistic binary view of the world in terms of good/evil or black/white is both naïve and harmful. If it were shown to you, unequivocally and absolutely, that your god does not exist, to what depths of depravity would you sink?

(April 22, 2012 at 11:35 am)Jireh Wrote:

(April 22, 2012 at 11:33 am)Minimalist Wrote: We do not need to make a "case for atheism."

because strong atheists do believe, most probably no God(s) exist. Therefore they need to provide positive evidence to back up their claim.

Have any ?

Are you able to read? Or have you just ignored everything that everyone has said?

You are the one making the claim, you need to provide evidence.

Quote:to what depths of depravity would you sink?

He'd probably be an evangelical xtian.... you know, the worst of the worst.

I've never understood the idea of "god" as a mystery worthy of distinctions like "possible but not likely" or really any sort of credibility at all. We know a hell of alot about "gods", we know a hell of alot about a hell of alot of them. We see where they come from in each and every instance. We see what they are used to explain in each and every instance. There is a veritable mountain of evidence regarding gods, but none of it any evidence of their actual existence beyond the minds of men and ability of our writers, singers, and sculptors. Possible by what metrics? How have we assigned such a probability? Why let loose of all that is or can be known about gods to posit some great mystery? It seems to me that those who do this must first create the mystery, so that they may then invoke it.

(April 22, 2012 at 11:35 am)Jireh Wrote: because strong atheists do believe, most probably no God(s) exist. Therefore they need to provide positive evidence to back up their claim.

Have any ?

Quote:Please present good arguments and evidence to why you think religion is true

Have any?

(April 22, 2012 at 11:30 am)Jireh Wrote: What is your standard of extraordinary ?

radio waves, electromagnetism, and light leave no " hard evidence ", but they exist..........

Ummmm........

Did you say that with a straight face?

Jumping in here.

(April 22, 2012 at 6:42 am)Jireh Wrote: what objective responsability do you have, if God does not exist ?

None, all my responsibilities are of my own choosing.

(April 22, 2012 at 6:42 am)Jireh Wrote: If God does not exist, good and evyl cannot exist. Everything is relative, and you set your morals, according to your preferences. There is nobody that can say, you are wrong and right. If Hitler thought, he was right in doing, what he did, who can tell him, that is not true, he was wrong ?

Bullshit. Even without god, the world is still here and the people are still here. People still act according to their motives and their actions still have consequences. That is the basis for existence of good and evil.

(April 22, 2012 at 6:42 am)Jireh Wrote: if God created the physical laws, why should he not be able to break them ?
what logical contradictions ?what objective responsability do you have, if God does not exist ?

If god created laws of logic then he should be able to break them.
Therefore, god can exist and not exist at the same time.
Therefore, god does not exist - hence proven.

(April 22, 2012 at 6:42 am)Jireh Wrote: please disrove then, that a God, described as below, can exist :

God is the supreme being of the universe. God is a unbodied mind, He is righteous and just, love, good, free from sin, he is perfect in his character and person, he is righteous in all His attitudes and actions, he is eternal, without a beginning, and without a end, he is omniscient, omnipresent, limitless in authority, immutable, he is the truth. Moreover, God is self-existent, nonspatial, nonmaterial, unimaginably powerful, and personal.

Too easy. The qualities described here are mutually contradictory.

1. Existence, by definition, is spatio-temporal. Something that is non-spatial and non-temporal cannot be said to exist.

2. Actions, motives and thoughts all of which have been attributed to god here are temporal properties, which would not be applicable to a non-temporal being as defined here.

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(April 22, 2012 at 6:50 am)Christian Wrote: The problem is that if you believe there is no evidence for God's existence, it would be difficult to attempt to present any evidence to you at all. After all, your presupposition is that "there has never been a shred of evidence" presented. Undoubtedly, any evidence that might be presented for God would be evidence that must be dismissed because, as atheists like you say "there has never been a shred of evidence" for God's existence. So essentially the atheist is saying he wants people to provide him with evidence but it doesn't matter what evidence they provide because he will dismiss it automatically - an action consistent with his belief that "there has never been a shred of evidence" for God's existence.

Wrong. Any evidence presented to date has been dismissed not because of some preconceived notion, but because it is bullshit.

frodo Wrote:Here you demonstrate nicely the ignorance of atheists, and show how they manage to misinterpret the world around them, by trying to shoehorn science onto metaphysics, a subject they are forced to embrace but remain totally ignorant of.

I'm curious. How are we forced to embrace metaphysics(beyond relgious people constantly invoking this word, of course)?