(April 26, 2012 at 5:13 pm)Mosrhun Wrote:

(April 26, 2012 at 1:59 am)Godschild Wrote:

(April 25, 2012 at 6:42 am)Mosrhun Wrote: The feeling of a god speaking to you through prayer is nothing but the power of positive thought on the body. The main thing religion spoon feeds you is faith. If you honestly believe that you are speaking to god, your body will react and you will feel a connection or presence. Nothing divine here.

You know this how.

I was baptist for 15 years. I "felt god's presence" plenty of times.

You couldn't have, to you He does not exist.

And, right on cue, G-C resorts to the No True Xtian argument.

(April 26, 2012 at 7:29 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(April 26, 2012 at 5:13 pm)Mosrhun Wrote: I was baptist for 15 years. I "felt god's presence" plenty of times.

You couldn't have, to you He does not exist.

Exactly why he put it in quotes GC. Once again you miss the whole point. What he felt was real ... because feelings and emotions ARE real. The Holy fucking Spirit on the other hand is just the name you assign those emotions.

You just can't tell someone who was a christian for 15 years that, "well, you weren't a REAL christian." It's a bull shit copout. Especially when some of these former god-suckers were pastors and missionaries.

Arrogant SOB.

ChadWooters Wrote:To me it looks like both you and Undecievied have similar experiences. The only difference is to what you see as the cause of that experience. Undecieved believes God initiates a physiological response to devotional activities. You see a physiological response to valued mental constructs. Taken from a dualist perspective, Undecieved appears to invoke an unnecessary element, God, to describe the experience.

I can't speak for Undeceived's experiences, but I know in my heart that what I described in my post is definitely what I used to do. Whenever I felt inspired to compose songs I thought it was because I was doing God's Will of spreading his message. Now I feel just as inspired simply because the passion I have for music is what gets me composing anyways. So the inspiration is still there which means that it was more sensible to say that I used to get inspired because I like to compose. God didn't make a difference in that respect.

It's not that I want to take away from Undeceived's experiences but because I have been on both sides at some stage, I know for myself what I was really feeling at the time.

Quote:What exactly is the difference between the emotion a person feels when they ‘hunger for the Word of God’ and infernal fire that drives lustful impulses? I see both as confirmation that you have made something an important part of your being, for good or evil. The only test I can currently imagine for telling one from the other is to evaluate the effect it has on one’s life, i.e. the ‘fruits’.

On the topic of music again, I went to a gig last night and saw blessthefall and Northlane. Blessthefall are Christians and Northlane are definitely not. They both produce the same fruits even though one has God on their side. So how would we evaluate how their lives have changed, because from the outside they look identical? Maybe if you elaborate on the 'fruits' part I can understand what you mean.

Welsh cake Wrote:If I were FallentoReason I'd be rather pissed off with you right about now.

You're seriously comparing FtR's efforts to start up missionary work and raising the necessary funds, to you getting off your fat arse to go to church for one Sunday morning service?

I think he meant that after 8 years of missionary work he felt just as lost as before he even became a Christian(?)

(April 26, 2012 at 7:29 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(April 26, 2012 at 5:13 pm)Mosrhun Wrote:

(April 26, 2012 at 1:59 am)Godschild Wrote:

(April 25, 2012 at 6:42 am)Mosrhun Wrote: The feeling of a god speaking to you through prayer is nothing but the power of positive thought on the body. The main thing religion spoon feeds you is faith. If you honestly believe that you are speaking to god, your body will react and you will feel a connection or presence. Nothing divine here.

You know this how.

I was baptist for 15 years. I "felt god's presence" plenty of times.

You couldn't have, to you He does not exist.

I thought I did. If you believe it enough you will feel it. You're delusional and you don't even know it. My grandfather is a pastor and so is my uncle. I "heard god" tell me to become a pastor as well and even preached a handful of sermons to my youth group.

You think it's God talking to you. Have you ever stopped to think maybe its just yourself talking to yourself. Schizophrenia much? We all have it. Just it usually stays in the head. There is nothing supernatural about it.

(April 26, 2012 at 8:15 pm)Cinjin Wrote:

(April 26, 2012 at 7:29 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(April 26, 2012 at 5:13 pm)Mosrhun Wrote: I was baptist for 15 years. I "felt god's presence" plenty of times.

You couldn't have, to you He does not exist.

Exactly why he put it in quotes GC. Once again you miss the whole point. What he felt was real ... because feelings and emotions ARE real. The Holy fucking Spirit on the other hand is just the name you assign those emotions.

You just can't tell someone who was a christian for 15 years that, "well, you weren't a REAL christian." It's a bull shit copout. Especially when some of these former god-suckers were pastors and missionaries.

Arrogant SOB.

A person should say I felt something emotional, not that they felt God when they believe He doesn't exist.

Yes I can say they were not a true christian, when they relate their Christian experience was phony, just like you. To have been an authentic Christian means that even though you changed your position, you would not deny that Christ is who he says He is. The arrogance falls on you brother, I'm just relating the truth, if it bothers you then quit reading my post.

(April 27, 2012 at 12:30 pm)Godschild Wrote: A person should say I felt something emotional, not that they felt God when they believe He doesn't exist.

He did believe that god existed at the time and has since come to his senses and stopped believing in fairy tales. What do you not get about that?

(April 26, 2012 at 10:31 pm)Mosrhun Wrote:

(April 26, 2012 at 7:29 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(April 26, 2012 at 5:13 pm)Mosrhun Wrote:

(April 26, 2012 at 1:59 am)Godschild Wrote:

(April 25, 2012 at 6:42 am)Mosrhun Wrote: The feeling of a god speaking to you through prayer is nothing but the power of positive thought on the body. The main thing religion spoon feeds you is faith. If you honestly believe that you are speaking to god, your body will react and you will feel a connection or presence. Nothing divine here.

You know this how.

I was baptist for 15 years. I "felt god's presence" plenty of times.

You couldn't have, to you He does not exist.

I thought I did. If you believe it enough you will feel it. You're delusional and you don't even know it. My grandfather is a pastor and so is my uncle. I "heard god" tell me to become a pastor as well and even preached a handful of sermons to my youth group.

I believe that you did experience an emotional something, I do not and did not deny that. What I said, is that for you it could not have been from God, because you do not believe in Him. Just because you have family members who are pastors, that is no reason for God to call you into the ministry. God will only call the faithful, and seeing as you have come to deny Him, well, don't you think an omniscient God would have known what your future held.

Godschild Wrote:Yes I can say they were not a true christian, when they relate their Christian experience was phony, just like you. To have been an authentic Christian means that even though you changed your position, you would not deny that Christ is who he says He is. The arrogance falls on you brother, I'm just relating the truth, if it bothers you then quit reading my post.

This is the No True Scotsman fallacy again. Practically what you're saying is that a true Christian is one that will die a Christian. Is it also true that a true Christian's desires will be that of God's, that they will preach the Gospel through actions, that they will pray and also seek to better understand the Word (to name a few things)?