(August 23, 2009 at 2:45 pm)Kyuuketsuki Wrote:

(August 23, 2009 at 2:34 pm)jamal Wrote: ok i'll introduce my self here , my name is Jamal and I'm 23 , u wanna know more ask

Let's see ... um ... it'll come I'm sure ... hmm ... well ... er ... no, sorry, can't think of a bloody thing I want to ask a theist! Perhaps you'd do better in a Christian forum? They already believe in something stupid so why not something else?

Kyu

oh i have questions to atheists
explain scientifically what start the universe ?

i gtg now for a while , take ur time to answer

Quote:explain scientifically what start the universe ?

There are two possible answers to that depending upon whether you subscribe to M Theory or not.

I'll keep it simple for now but may elaborate later, or others may.

1) Nothing started the Universe because in order for there to be a beginning there must have been a time before. As not only matter and space was created at the big bang but time itself there could not have been a before and so there could have been no cause.

2) In the M theory version of events our universe came into existence as we see it today as a result of two membranes colliding. These membranes (of which our 3D universe currently resides) exists in what is fetchingly called the multiverse and as far as we know, the multiverse has always existed thus negating the need for a cause also.

(August 23, 2009 at 2:34 pm)jamal Wrote: ok i'll introduce my self here , my name is Jamal and I'm 23 , u wanna know more ask

Sorry, that's not how it works here.

When you signed up you were presented with this sign:

It is considered bad form to post a link or other self promotion as a first post. If you are new here, please first introduce yourself in the Introductions forum.

You can see it here on the registration agreement page: http://atheistforums.org/member.php?action=register (Hint, you clicked "agree")

This sign is smaller (but still present) on the main forum page. Please don't ignore it.

(August 23, 2009 at 2:53 pm)jamal Wrote:

(August 23, 2009 at 2:45 pm)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: Let's see ... um ... it'll come I'm sure ... hmm ... well ... er ... no, sorry, can't think of a bloody thing I want to ask a theist! Perhaps you'd do better in a Christian forum? They already believe in something stupid so why not something else?

oh i have questions to atheists
explain scientifically what start the universe ?

There are a number of hypothesis but in principle I have no idea ... next?

Kyu

(August 23, 2009 at 2:53 pm)jamal Wrote: oh i have questions to atheists
explain scientifically what start the universe ?

i gtg now for a while , take ur time to answer

What started the universe? I honestly do not know. We have theories and many hypothesises but no real facts. Nobody actually knows the answer to that one.

Next...

(August 23, 2009 at 2:53 pm)jamal Wrote: explain scientifically what start the universe ?

I farted. It was an unfortunate side effect.

(August 23, 2009 at 3:01 pm)Darwinian Wrote:

Quote:explain scientifically what start the universe ?

There are two possible answers to that depending upon whether you subscribe to M Theory or not.

I'll keep it simple for now but may elaborate later, or others may.

1) Nothing started the Universe because in order for there to be a beginning there must have been a time before. As not only matter and space was created at the big bang but time itself there could not have been a before and so there could have been no cause.

2) In the M theory version of events our universe came into existence as we see it today as a result of two membranes colliding. These membranes (of which our 3D universe currently resides) exists in what is fetchingly called the multiverse and as far as we know, the multiverse has always existed thus negating the need for a cause also.

ok ur the only one who gave me a real answer , i don't know about the m-theory but the big bang is kind of a fact for muslims , its written in quran 1400 years ago so nothing new with that.

i'm not challenging anyone here i just need answers..

i have questions about evolution , if we evolved from monkeys to humans , why theres still monkey out there ? why didnt they evolve with us ?
and why we couldn't see any creature evolution for more than 5000 years ? i always ask this question and they say it needs million of years , does that mean in million years were suddenly might grow wings or something ??
please answer seriously or just don't reply , say good or don't speak

(August 23, 2009 at 9:00 pm)jamal Wrote: i have questions about evolution , if we evolved from monkeys to humans , why theres still monkey out there ? why didnt they evolve with us ?

Here we go again. Nobody is saying we evolved from monkeys. Monkeys & humans share a common ancestor millions of years ago, which was "ape-like". This ancestor evolved in many different directions, producing humans, monkeys, and the entire ape species we see today. So they did evolve with us, just in a different direction.

Quote:and why we couldn't see any creature evolution for more than 5000 years ? i always ask this question and they say it needs million of years , does that mean in million years were suddenly might grow wings or something ??

We see evolution all the time, just on a small scale. Mutations that are passed on through the species is evolution. A scientist showed evolution in a lab with e-coli in just 20 years, and the e-coli developed an entirely new way of gathering food.

As for suddenly developing wings, no. It wouldn't be "sudden"; but who knows. The whole concept of evolution says it is unpredictable. There are too many factors (not to mention random mutations) to take into account for anyone to accurately predict the evolutionary path of future species.

Anyway, to sort out the problem of "micro" and "macro" evolution, here is an example:

1.0 -> 1.1 -> 1.2 -> 1.3 -> 1.4 -> 1.5 -> 1.6 -> 1.7 -> 1.8 -> 1.9 -> 2.0

Imagine number 1.0 is a species of animal. 1.1 is the same species but with a mutation that has been selected by natural selection. 1.2 is the same species as 1.2 but with another mutation, etc etc. This is micro evolution. If you go through the steps one by one, you don't see much of a change, but if you look at the first and last numbers (1.0 -> 2.0) then you see a large change, so much so that 2.0 cannot reproduce with 1.0 anymore given the amount of genetic change. This is macro evolution.

(August 23, 2009 at 9:00 pm)jamal Wrote: i have questions about evolution , if we evolved from monkeys to humans , why theres still monkey out there ? why didnt they evolve with us ?
and why we couldn't see any creature evolution for more than 5000 years ? i always ask this question and they say it needs million of years , does that mean in million years were suddenly might grow wings or something ??

Sigh! WE DID NOT EVOLVE FROM MONKEYS ... we and others apes have a common ancestor euphemistically called a manape but here's what all you bozo's (sorry bozo) miss, there is no accepted species classification that doesn't include apes, there are 4 other ape species and humans are the fifth! That manape does not exist any more and that you have to ask why species that are older are still around shows you do not understand the concept of evolutionary fitness ... fitness doesn't imply superiority or strength or better in the usual human sense of these words, it means better suited to a given environment and, more importantly, implies there are varied environments so that (in principle) species A might exist in two different environments where one environment absolutely suits what they have evolved to be and so are not under evolutionary pressure but those in the other environment do not quite suit it and so are under evolutionary pressure ... over a long period of time species A in the less suitable environment evolve into species B. IOW a new species is born but there is no reason why the old must disappear.

EDIT: Dawkins Explains It Quite Well Here:
[youtube]wh0F4FBLJRE[/youtube]

Evolution is not normally a sudden process as those others have said it typically takes many generations (generations in some species such as fruit fly (drosophila) are very short so evolution can be observed under laboratory conditions, in others generations are long so millions of years will be necessary to observe it. Stephen J. Gould proposed a more rapid form of evolution called Punctuated Equilibrium (based on what is called the founder effect) to explain the apparently rapid evolution seen in the fossil record but other evolutionists such as Dawkins do not believe it is necessary.

(August 23, 2009 at 9:00 pm)jamal Wrote: please answer seriously or just don't reply , say good or don't speak

DON'T TELL US WHAT TO DO IN OUR FORUM!

Kyu

Quote:ok ur the only one who gave me a real answer , i don't know about the m-theory but the big bang is kind of a fact for muslims , its written in quran 1400 years ago so nothing new with that.

With the greatest respect, it only seemed to make sense after Edwin Hubble came up with the idea. I'm familiar with the passages that you are referring to and it's a huge leap of the imagination that's needed to interpret them in this way.

If the Quran really does predict the Big Bang theory why did it not form the basis for a scientific theory centuries ago when Islam was at the centre of scientific study. Unfortunately, like many of these things, they can only be interpreted a certain way after the event and not before.

Quote:i have questions about evolution , if we evolved from monkeys to humans , why theres still monkey out there ? why didnt they evolve with us ?

They did evolve with us.

There was an early ancestor to all primates and we all went down different branches. One branch led to Chimps, another to Gorillas, another to humans and so on.

This idea that a lot of people have that monkeys simply turned into humans is quite wrong.

If you could travel back in time, say, a few million years of course you wouldn't find any humans as we are today. Instead you would find a range of human like species called hominids. Eventually all these species would go extinct except one. The only surviving hominid that exists today is of course us, Humans.

You would also not find any Chimps or Gorillas or Orangutans or any other of todays apes and monkeys because they had not evolved either. You would of course find their ancestors.

Go back even further and you find the ancestors of both monkeys, apes and hominids. Even further and you find a species that led to all primates, including lemurs.

They don't call it the tree of life for no reason. You see, each species on Earth has its own branch, so Humans have their own, so do other primates. Following all these branches down you get back to the common ancestor of all primates.

The following image is highly simplified, but hopefully you get the idea.


Another misconception is the idea that a species has to die out in order for a new one to evolve. Using our tree analogy, just because a main branch grows new one does not mean that the main branch has to die off, although the evolutionary pressure that caused the new branches to grow usually means the main branch is endangered.

Quote:why we couldn't see any creature evolution for more than 5000 years ?

Evolution is generally a slow process and relies upon changing environments to work it's best. If the environment remained static then there would be very little evolutionary pressure on animals to change.

The plague, or black death is a good example of evolution that cannot be easily detected. Most of the people living in and around Europe are direct descendants of those who survived the plague and as such have a greater resistance to it. This is evolution selecting for survival.

However, if you want to see evolution at work today then you need only look a the world of bacteria and virus's. There are brand new species of these appearing all the time which is why we are constantly having to develop new vaccines and antibiotics.

Quote:does that mean in million years were suddenly might grow wings or something ??

No.

Nothing is going to suddenly do anything. That's not how evolution works. I'd love to explain all about the evolution of birds from small tree dwelling raptor like dinosaurs but I think I'll leave that for another day...