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RE: The Brain=Mind Fallacy
June 1, 2012 at 7:49 am
(This post was last modified: June 1, 2012 at 7:54 am by Bravo.)
(June 1, 2012 at 7:42 am)StatCrux Wrote: Where exactly are these thoughts physically? Speed is not a physical entity, you can't touch speed, it can be observed, but has no physical nature. You use speed as an analogy to thought, are you therefore admitting that thought is non-physical? Also speed isn't self aware.. Thoughts are not self aware, humans are. The thought is the result of self-awareness.
(June 1, 2012 at 7:42 am)StatCrux Wrote: Would you say that a computer has thoughts? Does an electrical distribution network have thoughts? These devices do not have the complexity of a brain. At least try and find a proper argument.
I have no problem sharing a common ancestor with the apes; it's being related to some people that bothers me.
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RE: The Brain=Mind Fallacy
June 1, 2012 at 7:59 am
(June 1, 2012 at 7:49 am)Bravo Wrote: These devices do not have the complexity of a brain. At least try and find a proper argument.
I'm simply trying to understand where thought is physically located, is it attached to the neurons, is it attached onto chemicals. If it is a physical entity where is it? Or is it a non-physical emergent property of the brain?
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RE: The Brain=Mind Fallacy
June 1, 2012 at 8:03 am
(This post was last modified: June 1, 2012 at 8:06 am by Bravo.)
(June 1, 2012 at 7:59 am)StatCrux Wrote: I'm simply trying to understand where thought is physically located, is it attached to the neurons, is it attached onto chemicals. If it is a physical entity where is it? Or is it a non-physical emergent property of the brain?
To use a previous excellent example, thought is attached to the brain the same way speed is attached to a car. It is not a property, it is a result of the brain functioning. A car is green - that is a property. A car has speed - because it's working. A brain is 3.5 lbs - property. A brain thinks because it's alive (and well).
I have no problem sharing a common ancestor with the apes; it's being related to some people that bothers me.
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RE: The Brain=Mind Fallacy
June 1, 2012 at 8:06 am
It's a very complex subject. Even I'm having trouble understanding some parts. However after months of reading I've learnt quite a bit.
I remember someone mentioning an old 90's computer and that it could never be turned off because all the data in it would be lost. The computer had to be left on for the data to remain and that just like the human brain, if it ever shuts down all the information that makes you who you are and allows conciousness would be destroyed and so ultimately, you cease to exist. Seeing as all the years of data being stored would be destroyed through inactivity. We dream while sleeping to keep the brain active.
We are the brain and when it finally shuts down, it'll be the end of you. Does anyone find that....scary or worrying?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: The Brain=Mind Fallacy
June 1, 2012 at 8:10 am
(This post was last modified: June 1, 2012 at 8:11 am by StatCrux.)
(June 1, 2012 at 8:03 am)Bravo Wrote: (June 1, 2012 at 7:59 am)StatCrux Wrote: I'm simply trying to understand where thought is physically located, is it attached to the neurons, is it attached onto chemicals. If it is a physical entity where is it? Or is it a non-physical emergent property of the brain?
To use a previous excellent example, thought is attached to the brain the same way speed is attached to a car.
Fine, using your analogy, explain where the speed is "attached" to the car, speed isn't a physical "thing". So using that analogy thought is a non-physical emergent property of the brain, yes?
Where is the physical point of attachment between thoughts and the brain?
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RE: The Brain=Mind Fallacy
June 1, 2012 at 8:12 am
There isn't one, that's why we see so many disembodied consciousnesses floating around doing this and that..........
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: The Brain=Mind Fallacy
June 1, 2012 at 8:17 am
(June 1, 2012 at 8:10 am)StatCrux Wrote: Fine, using your analogy, explain where the speed is "attached" to the car, speed isn't a physical "thing". So using that analogy thought is a non-physical emergent property of the brain, yes?
Thoughts are the result of a physical thing functioning. I don't see why it matters if they are made of plastic and float around your head or have a non-physical reality. If this is a way to try and demonstrate the existence of the soul I think is a wrong path. Thoughts have same state as the data in your RAM inside your PC - charges and electrons arranged in a certain way. Turn the power off - everything is gone. Please don't go and ask again about the self-awareness of the PC though.
I have no problem sharing a common ancestor with the apes; it's being related to some people that bothers me.
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RE: The Brain=Mind Fallacy
June 1, 2012 at 8:23 am
(June 1, 2012 at 8:17 am)Bravo Wrote: Thoughts are the result of a physical thing functioning. I don't see why it matters if they are made of plastic and float around your head or have a non-physical reality.
Really? I would say that's pretty crucial..
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RE: The Brain=Mind Fallacy
June 1, 2012 at 8:25 am
(June 1, 2012 at 8:23 am)StatCrux Wrote: Really? I would say that's pretty crucial.. To what? 
I have no problem sharing a common ancestor with the apes; it's being related to some people that bothers me.
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RE: The Brain=Mind Fallacy
June 1, 2012 at 8:28 am
(June 1, 2012 at 8:25 am)Bravo Wrote: (June 1, 2012 at 8:23 am)StatCrux Wrote: Really? I would say that's pretty crucial.. To what?
Well the existence of non-physical realities, whether materialism or dualism is true etc
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