(August 31, 2009 at 8:50 pm)Meatball Wrote:

(August 31, 2009 at 8:24 pm)dry land fish Wrote: You can't blame insurance companies for not allowing some treatments. They are there to make money and that's that. You know there are people that would wait until they were pregnant or had a heart attack to pick up insurance. That's not how the insurance game works when you are trying to make a profit.

That pretty much sums up my argument against private health insurance.

They are a BUSINESS and are no different than any other business. People choose to participate in plans or not. You can shop around and no one is making anyone choose any one healthcare company. So it's ethical to take money from people who make a lot of money? I know people who make that much money and they are not rich. They own businesses and they pay a lot of taxes as it is and have a ton of expenses that people don't notice when they see that big number that they make BEFORE taxes. Regardless of how rich someone is it's not right to take their money to spread it around to other people. They worked for that money just like I work for my money.

Why should healthcare be non profit? I work for a non profit organization and do you have any idea how hard it is to make money to just keep the lights on? Non profit companies still have to make a profit. I get paid for what I do and so does everyone else who works there. How are doctors going to pay off medical school if they work for a non profit? You realize it takes a lot of money to go to medical school? It takes even more money to buy equipment to treat people with. An MRI machine in 2003 was around two million dollars. If healthcare became "non profit" then the taxpayers would end up having to buy equipment as well as pay for everyones care. There is no way they will just be able to "tax the rich" with this plan.

This country is a capitalist country. Everyone has the same advantage as everyone else. We are a country founded on small people starting for profit businesses and then some of those people ended up with multi billion dollar industries. That is who we are and that is how our economy is geared. In America you can make a profit from anything and there's no limit to what can be offered as a service to the public. This includes healtchare. Insurance companies provide a service and it's not the insurance companies that are at fault. It's the price of medical care that is the issue. Lower the prices of care to a reasonable rate but keep the private insurance companies.

dlf,
you come across as someone who knows the price of evertyhing and the value of nothing.

(September 1, 2009 at 3:39 pm)bozo Wrote: dlf,
you come across as someone who knows the price of evertyhing and the value of nothing.

Depends on what side of the fence you are on. The idea in America is to make money to be able to prosper. Everything has a price on it in America. Even life. People make a living charging a couple grand or more for a casket. Even death isn't free because your family is stuck with the bill if you have no insurance. Please don't tell me everyone is going to start trying to get free life insurance too. If that happens there will be a lot of unhappy twenty something wives who won't get to kill off their rich old husbands. That's the nature of the beast because people have to make a living. What do you foreign people think about most of the time? Do you not think about your money, savings, retirement accounts, house payments, car loans, credit cards? I mean...that's what everyone I know has on their minds. When you go to work are you not thinking about how much money you made that day? If you want a new home you work. If your job doesn't pay enough then you pay a lot of money to get an education to get a job that does pay enough for you to afford whatever lifestyle you want. Being able to AFFORD good health, plastic surgeries, nice cars, big homes, and other things are a reward to people for working hard to achieve their goals. To give anything away for free is taking away from the satisfaction one gets when they finally make it to wherever they want to be in life. What is the drive to succeed if things are given to you?
In the past health care could have been free because someone put a bunch of herbs together and you went on your way. Today we have labs and research companies who have to do experiments to be able to bring us drugs. We have doctors who have to go to school for a very long time to be able to help us because we know more and more about disease. We have engineers and physicists who have designed machines to find cancer and tumors. The medical field is full of hundreds of thousands of people who worked hard for their jobs and what they do costs a lot of money. In the past when medicine was cheap we also had a lot of deaths from disease. If we want to stay healthy we pay for it...or else we start dieing of small pox or the black plague again. These people aren't going to go to school and waste their time only being able to get out and make the same as a school teacher. We are talking about people being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for their research that saves lives. We do NOT have the money to afford for everyone to get medical care for free.

(September 1, 2009 at 6:59 pm)dry land fish Wrote: Everything has a price on it in America. Even life.

wow. Just wow.

Quote:...there will be a lot of unhappy twenty something wives who won't get to kill off their rich old husbands. That's the nature of the beast because people have to make a living.

Now that's just fukin scary.

Quote:What do you foreign people think about most of the time?

Quote:When you go to work are you not thinking about how much money you made that day?

Not usually, no.
Or was that a question for the 'foreigners'?

Quote:If your job doesn't pay enough then you pay a lot of money to get an education to get a job that does

I think I found my entry into the 'People say the stupidest things' thread.

Quote:What is the drive to succeed if things are given to you?

Things? Like health?
We ain't talking T.V's here. You really do wish to euthanize or at least sterilize the poor.

Quote:In the past health care could have been free because someone put a bunch of herbs together and you went on your way. Today we have labs and research companies who have to do experiments to be able to bring us drugs. We have doctors who have to go to school for a very long time to be able to help us because we know more and more about disease. We have engineers and physicists who have designed machines to find cancer and tumors. The medical field is full of hundreds of thousands of people who worked hard for their jobs and what they do costs a lot of money.

Yup. Shure does. And if we wish a stable population and healthy SOCIETY then we all need to pitch in for it's continued support.

Quote:We do NOT have the money to afford for everyone to get medical care for free.

Yes WE do.

Oh Jesus fucking Christ dlf you just don't get it!

I'm thinking of my pap smear again. Oooohhhh........I can't wait for that!!!!!

Quote:We do NOT have the money to afford for everyone to get medical care for free.

If we have the money to bomb the living shit out of half of the world we have the money to provide health care.

(September 1, 2009 at 8:58 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:We do NOT have the money to afford for everyone to get medical care for free.

If we have the money to bomb the living shit out of half of the world we have the money to provide health care.

We HAD the money to bomb the living shit out of half of the world. We don't have it now. Bush used up a lot of our money and have you noticed that Americans aren't working right now? Have you not noticed unemployment is up and people aren't spending money like we were before we went to Iraq? In our cripped economy the last thing we need is more money being spent on a large scale. If we are going to have some sort of socialized health care we need to wait until we get back on our feet. Is everyone here an extreme Liberal? I'm sensing that most of you are..and that's fine but being extreme is never a good thing. How is it stupid to suggest that someone get an education if they are not happy with their lack of funds to pay for basic health needs? There's no other way to make more money unless you sell drugs or steal cars for a living. Health isn't given to someone in the first place. A person has to work to be healthy. Most Americans think work is the effort it takes to walk to their car that's parked in their drive way. Why can't the government build some more gyms that are affordable for the poor people? A gym membership where I live costs around 40.00 a month. Can't we raise some revenue by opening gyms that give memberships based on income to help people to become healthy. An open heart surgery costs a lot more than it would cost to get someones fat ass on a treadmill five days a week. Are we not going to be starting up any programs to keep people from getting sick and getting chronic EXPENSIVE diseases? Or are we just going to say "yeah sure keep sucking on your cigarettes, eating your potato chips and mickey D's and we'll just pay for the cost of cleaning out your arteries."

(September 1, 2009 at 9:35 pm)dry land fish Wrote: We HAD the money to bomb the living shit out of half of the world. We don't have it now. Bush used up a lot of our money and have you noticed that Americans aren't working right now? Have you not noticed unemployment is up and people aren't spending money like we were before we went to Iraq? In our cripped economy the last thing we need is more money being spent on a large scale. If we are going to have some sort of socialized health care we need to wait until we get back on our feet. Is everyone here an extreme Liberal? I'm sensing that most of you are..and that's fine but being extreme is never a good thing. How is it stupid to suggest that someone get an education if they are not happy with their lack of funds to pay for basic health needs? There's no other way to make more money unless you sell drugs or steal cars for a living. Health isn't given to someone in the first place. A person has to work to be healthy. Most Americans think work is the effort it takes to walk to their car that's parked in their drive way. Why can't the government build some more gyms that are affordable for the poor people? A gym membership where I live costs around 40.00 a month. Can't we raise some revenue by opening gyms that give memberships based on income to help people to become healthy. An open heart surgery costs a lot more than it would cost to get someones fat ass on a treadmill five days a week. Are we not going to be starting up any programs to keep people from getting sick and getting chronic EXPENSIVE diseases? Or are we just going to say "yeah sure keep sucking on your cigarettes, eating your potato chips and mickey D's and we'll just pay for the cost of cleaning out your arteries."

You just don't get it. It's not as simple as get an education, it NEVER will be.

And then you complain that people are getting fat causing their own problems, did it ever occured to you that if they could afford regular doctor visits they could get the information to help them stay healthy? That's the whole fucking idea behind a public option. Get them proper health care so they don't go to the emergency room with a heart attack and then not pay the expensive ER bill which then gets passed on to taxpayers. YOU ARE PAYING FOR THE POOR'S HEALTHCARE NOW AT A MUCH HIGHER PRICE THAN IF WE HAD A PUBLIC OPTION AND PAID FOR PREVENTIVE CARE

Oh no no going to the doctor will not keep fat people from being fat. They are fat because they are lazy and stupid or they are genetically prone to being over weight. Our government starts teaching people the right way to eat at pre school ages. You learn the "food guide pyramid" before you even finish the first grade. Every where you go in America there are anti smoking ads on billboards and commercials on TV by anti smoking campaigns talking about the dangers of smoking. We have documentaries on fat people and unhealthy eating. We have informercials on TV that push diet pills. You can't open a magazine, drive down the road, or watch TV without seeing an ad promoting good health in America.
How in the world can you say that we are paying more for for peoples healthcare now than if we had a prevntative option? There are a lot of uninsured people in America that do not qualify for medical cards right now. Those people will then be added to our bill. Has anyone figured out how lazy people in America are. If you give people "free cheese" in this country they will take it and expect it all the time. People who get handouts do nothing but sit on their butts eating and making babies. They have no reason to work or pay into the system to help out with the social programs people keep talking about.

Obama is going to address this healthcare issue this month on a national level. He's yet to come out and talk about it to the people. I read today that there is a portion of that bill that talks about spending money so people can enter into the homes of toddlers to teach them parenting skills. The issue is that it's voluntary at first but once a parent is enrolled there's nothing that says they can cancel it. This is another example of a "government" takeover. We already have parenting programs paid by each individual state and they target low income and at risk families. So now we need federal money to pay for yet another program like this? Where in the hell does Obama think this money will come from for all of this stuff he's doing? Now we have cash for refrigerators. When will this "cash" run out. Cash for clunkers has left many car dealerships out of money because the government has not delivered on that deal.

This is getting nowhere.
See my signature below