(June 5, 2012 at 12:35 am)padraic Wrote: (June 4, 2012 at 4:37 pm)Epimethean Wrote: Yes. It was, "how can anyone be dense enough to be christian?"
Religious belief has little if anything to with intellect or reason. Nor does atheism,if you believe Carl Jung,which I do in this rare instance. (of course there are exceptions.)
I have yet to meet a human being who demonstrates consistent reason or rational thought,about anything.
There is nothing irrational or illogical about most religious beliefs IF YOU ACCEPT THE PREMISE. The arguments are often logically valid syllogisms,based on an an unproven premise,such as the existence a god,and a very specific one at that,as a given.
Characterising all Christians, Muslims or whatever as stupid,ignorant ,crazy or deluded is a common atheist conceit. Perhaps the prejudice comes from the atypical dropkicks who insist on inflicting themselves on atheist forums. 
We have always been the same species and no matter the label as a species even the "smart" can fall for woo and superstition. I hate Ayn Rand with a passion. I don't merely agree with someone based on label.
HOWEVER, religion as an organization has always had a history to retard progress and is hostile to challenges to it's social norms. It has always taken questioners and blasphemers to pull society into the future. If our species never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves.
Our species has always had the manifestations of delusions in all its forums in all classes of societies in all the world's history. What does cloud the issue are artificial labels such as religion and politics which get conflated to comic book utopias that will never exist. When we as a species recognizes more and more that we are ALL capable of the same range of actions both good and bad and NONE of us are above nature, not even atheists, we will find more peace and more common ground.
No one here should fool themselves in thinking that irrational thoughts or delusions will be purged from humanity. Evolution's goal isn't about getting it right as far as facts, but merely getting to the point of reproduction. The ancient Egyptians were successful for 3,000 years centered around the false belief that the sun was a thinking god. I do not see our species evolution changing.
But that should not be an excuse to coddle the insecurities of believers. Humans DO deserve the dignity of rights protected by their government, even the minorities under that government. But claims themselves ON ANY SUBJECT should never be given taboo status in all aspects of life public and private. That will lead to the same fascism of theocracies and fascism of worship of the state IE North Korea.
So while it is noble to say "Can't we all just get along" AND WE SHOULD, it should NOT come at the cost of losing the ability to question, blaspheme or bitch. No one wants to be silenced merely because an opinion they hold may be unpopular.
"The first person to hurl an insult instead of a stone, started civilization" Freud.
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions" Thomas Jefferson
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god, for if there be one, surely he would pay more homage to reason than to that of blindfolded fear" Thomas Jefferson.
YES we should get along. But political correctness and caving always to social norms is what got Galileo put under house arrest for insulting the church with the truth which they were to childish and immature to handle.
The key to getting along is to accept human rights, not expect people to like you, or only say nice things about you. You cant use force of silence or taboos to force people to get along. Only laws that ALL can agree on in common law can do that.
The best you can do in a civil society is to allow the bitching while demanding all sides refrain from use of violence or calls to violence. But you cannot beat anyone's brain into conforming to your thoughts.
Quote:I have yet to meet a human being who demonstrates consistent reason or rational thought,about anything.
I wouldn't put it like that. I would say there is no human capable of being right about all things all the time on every subject. Irrationality is part of evolution and every single human will be irrational about something, at some point, including me.
Which is why scientific method is the best tool humans know of right now when you have conflicting claims or ideas. It gives us the best ability to filter out personal bias.
