(June 5, 2012 at 10:47 pm)Annik Wrote:

Quote: [...]Which now infers that this god needs to change. Perfection doesn't need changes. Mona Lisa viola, that is perfection as is David, the renaissance a reformation to change but by humans.

Creators like Picasso et al are just plain inspired folk. [...]

Well... I really don't agree with this. The background of he Mona Lisa is far from perfect and David (I'm assuming you mean Michelangelo's, is it's the most well-known) isn't exactly perfect, either. If you mean all this from a purely Naturalistic point of view. I find the expressionism in Picasso's work far more interesting, as it breaks people/things into its parts. Perfection is art is not science, it's just preference.

That was my fav era historically. Yes I do like some Michelangelo's work, can't help it.

Though, I don't particularly like Picasso.

Art is an agreeable or disagreeable taste.

I agree art isn't science but neither is a created universe by a god scientific.

We know evolution put us here which is from that love of all time Darwin. We weren't poof made in genesis from Adams rib.

Now to me Adams Rib is a movie w/Kate Hepburn & Spencer Tracy funny as hell.

My point is tastes, and fictions over realities.

We have yet to discover how the universe was made, but the ongoing theories haven't made an exact replication - which would be disastrous at this time.

Do you prefer the Renaissance over the Classical era?

(June 5, 2012 at 11:10 pm)Annik Wrote: Do you prefer the Renaissance over the Classical era?

For years I have indeed.

(June 5, 2012 at 9:43 pm)cato123 Wrote: Oh, do tell. Which catholic doctrines 'reinforce alot of the atheist views of God'?

Where do you want to start?

Quote:You don't ever answer the question, do you?

Yes I did, i answer the exact question you asked and nothing more. If you do not like the answer then rephrase the question.

Quote: What is a non-singular perspective of god?

A perspective based on more than one perspective of God.

Quote:I addressed a bible teaching church (the ONE true way taught by others that after investigation you chose or were simply indoctrinated in) or biblical self discovery as both still singular.

Actually you didn't. You only claimed that because God is mentioned in some churches and again in the bible, you believe this to be a singular perspective. There is no evidence that says all churches teach what the bible teaches. In fact i have said the opposite is true. Yet you maintain this somehow magically is still considered a singular perspective.

Which brings us to the next point you have obstinately asked what a singular perspective several times now. Why is it on one hand you are ignorant of this term and yet in the very next paragraph you are dictating its terms?

Quote:You still have yet to give what you mean by a non-singular or complete understanding of god. Just because you can parse and attack a very limited portion of someone's reply and comment doesn't mean that you have actually provided and answer to the original question.

this is a perfect example of what I just mentioned.

Quote:Are you suggesting that the catholic church doesn't teach the bible?

Yes. If Papal doctrine contradicts biblical doctrine then by the power of the church and his status as a living apostle of Jesus Christ he has the authority to over ride the Bible. There are several doctrines Catholic involve themselves in that directly contradict Biblical teachings. (Worship/praying to Idols, Forbidding people to marry, Praying/worship to people rather than to God, raising Marry to the status of a deity (being sinless, even though we are told only Christ wa sinless) All of these doctrine and many many more directly conflict with scripture. This represent one single perspective. Most Atheist's view God based on the Catholic model. George Carlin did. a secondary Perspective would be the one found in the bible. This biblical view contradicts the catholic model in just about every way.

Quote:What exactly is a bible teaching chuch?

A church that speaks where the bible speaks and remains silent where the bible is silent, and if ever there was a church doctrine to be found inconsistent with biblical doctrine then the biblical doctrine would cancle out the church's teaching.

Quote: Do all bible teaching churches agree on all matters of theology?

Define Church. What do you believe 'the church' is? If it is Catholicism, then yes as it is a denominational church all matters follow what the pope says otherwise disagreeing members are removed.

Quote:Are you seriously positing that the reason that I have to make a decision in all matters of my existence is because of your creator's abiguity?

You have a signal choice to make. In where and with whom you wish to spend eternity. Now if God's presents is overbearing, and we can not question or doubt who God is then what Choice is there other than to follow the indisputable evidence? As it is there is doubt. With reasonable doubt there is room for a true choice to be made. Take that doubt away, and we are all forced to follow the evidence.

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(June 5, 2012 at 9:57 pm)LiberalHearted Wrote:

(June 5, 2012 at 3:54 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: You're thinking of God in temporal terms. You're also treating nothing like it's something. And from what I'm gathering you seem to be saying that God got lonely?

Which also infers imperfection. Trait associated to humans not a god(s)

Drich, ya need to do better than, he the god man was scratching his ass and thinking what to do next.

Which now infers that this god needs to change. Perfection doesn't need changes. Mona Lisa viola, that is perfection as is David, the renaissance a reformation to change but by humans.

Creators like Picasso et al are just plain inspired folk.

Now, which the cosmos and meteor showers et al is an imperfection and a possible threat to our planet. How does a perfect god make such an imperfect universe. We can add solar flares to this mix.

Which now goes into this god being mean old son of a bitch that 'created something' that harms or potentially harmed many.

Begging the question of how does a perfect thing entity create only imperfections?

A fallacy for you.

I ask that you look up the word perfection, because not all forms of 'perfection' are static. Perfection can and does incorporate change when needed. Otherwise Man would have never made it out of the garden.

God is perfect, even if He is subject to the same emotions He has allowed us to experience. Just because an emotion is undesirable does not make it any less perfect. True perfection has nothing to do with want desire, or contentment.

(June 6, 2012 at 12:14 am)Drich Wrote: I addressed a bible teaching church (the ONE true way taught by others that after investigation you chose or were simply indoctrinated in) or biblical self discovery as both still singular.

The problem is the variety of xtians have differences and are in a variety of the indoctrinated among xtians. Would beg to differ with what you state Drich as the only truth.

These others too, have considered as their teachings as the only truth. Quakers, Puritans, the varied Amish, Johovah's, and of course the very questionable Mormons. Now, check this one out Evangelicals too disagree (agree to disagree) We do know already of the Catholics, but they too say they have the truth as the Eastern orthodox Catholics and Coptics.

(June 5, 2012 at 3:42 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Pretty simple question that I've never gotten an answer to while I was a Christian. For what reason did God create the universe? Did he have a reason? Did he need to create the universe?

God created the universe for His pleasure, simple really.

(June 6, 2012 at 12:14 am)Drich Wrote: I ask that you look up the word perfection, because not all forms of 'perfection' are static. Perfection can and does incorporate change when needed. Otherwise Man would have never made it out of the garden.

God is perfect, even if He is subject to the same emotions He has allowed us to experience. Just because an emotion is undesirable does not make it any less perfect. True perfection has nothing to do with want desire, or contentment.

Lead us not to "look something" up. This is the beginning.

http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/perfect

a : having no mistakes or flaws
b : completely correct or accurate
2 [more perfect; most perfect] : exactly right for a particular purpose, situation, or person
3 always used before a noun : complete and total — used for emphasis

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/perfect

a : being entirely without fault or defect : flawless <a perfect diamond>
b : satisfying all requirements : accurate
c : corresponding to an ideal standard or abstract concept <a perfect gentleman>
d : faithfully reproducing the original; specifically : letter-perfect
: expert, proficient <practice makes perfect>
a : pure, total

of course on the second site there is more to be read.

Bold sets your idea of god as defined in a dictionary.

No where does 'change' enter the word perfect.

2 sources.

Emotions are not perfect...read a thread on mental illnesses. Since some of the characteristics of 'mental disease' are not stoic. The DSV IV will give explanations of emotional issues...associated w/other symptoms.

Since emotions are and can be included as mental disease do we now assume god is - Narcissistic? I would say that the followers if asked w/caution not to include god would say yup.

The puter doesn't carry all of the DSM IV but. evidence, best I can find.

http://allpsych.com/disorders/dsm.html

http://allpsych.com/disorders/personalit...ssism.html
"Symptoms

The symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder revolve around a pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and sense of entitlement. Often individuals feel overly important and will exaggerate achievements and will accept, and often demand, praise and admiration despite worthy achievements. They may be overwhelmed with fantasies involving unlimited success, power, love, or beauty and feel that they can only be understood by others who are, like them, superior in some aspect of life."

Thereby goes your conception of god.

Narcissistic folk (met a few) will never say opps, made a mistake, unless blaming someone else for it....maybe like man? sarcasm intended.

So dictionary and the DSM IV comes forward as evidence.

No wonder xtians say Never question god.

(June 6, 2012 at 12:39 am)LiberalHearted Wrote:

(June 6, 2012 at 12:14 am)Drich Wrote: I addressed a bible teaching church (the ONE true way taught by others that after investigation you chose or were simply indoctrinated in) or biblical self discovery as both still singular.

The problem is the variety of xtians have differences and are in a variety of the indoctrinated among xtians. Would beg to differ with what you state Drich as the only truth.

These others too, have considered as their teachings as the only truth. Quakers, Puritans, the varied Amish, Johovah's, and of course the very questionable Mormons. Now, check this one out Evangelicals too disagree (agree to disagree) We do know already of the Catholics, but they too say they have the truth as the Eastern orthodox Catholics and Coptics.

which all woulld agree if their teachings were sole sourced from the bible or if they were suplimented by another source. all except the mormons do not hide from where they get their doctrine.

(June 6, 2012 at 1:29 am)Godschild Wrote:

(June 5, 2012 at 3:42 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Pretty simple question that I've never gotten an answer to while I was a Christian. For what reason did God create the universe? Did he have a reason? Did he need to create the universe?

God created the universe for His pleasure, simple really.

Ha, guess Thor's hypothesis wasn't too far off then.

(June 6, 2012 at 1:52 am)Drich Wrote: which all woulld agree if their teachings were sole sourced from the bible or if they were suplimented by another source. all except the mormons do not hide from where they get their doctrine.

Hun speak with some, travel a bit. They all state it is in the bible. or I prefer babble.

Exception of course Mormons although they do have that gig with the apostles having 'wives'

Damn me, I talk to everyone, and then go for the documentaries.

My nephew's Grandma in law is a for instance a minister. Sat with her at their wedding. Personally, I know many xtians. Including Coptics, and Lutherans.

That gig in the bible about before venturing into reading the bible to be filled w/the holy spirit.

We don't even agree in the US about the Constitution it is all up to "interpretation" Makes the same true for the bible.

NYC filled with people and if ya want to get along talk to people. Always going to walk into a xtian.

Interpretations are a part of people reality. You follow a dogma which was taught to you and others in the same way. Well other denominations do the same. The trouble is everyone is right and everyone interprets somewhat differently.

I debate smile and say goodbye.