The question them goes begging..."Why do you FEAR death?"

(July 2, 2012 at 9:07 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: The question them goes begging..."Why do you FEAR death?"

I don't know if that is a fair question. "Fear" in what context?

In evolution a certain amount of healthy fear will lead the antelope to look and listen for the lion rustling in the grass. Fear does help in survival as far as evolution. It is part of or fight or flight mechanism. But there is rational fear and unhealthy irrational fear.

I fear pain, and I fear not living. But I do not fear a fictional punishment in a fictional after life. And as much as I fear not living, I also accept that there will be a time in the future where I wont be living any more. So it is senseless to fear being finite.

But if someone fears death because they think they will burn in hell, that is the childish and most needless irrational fear a human can hold.

Not trying to answer for the theist here, but just pointing out that there are different reasons people have fear.

(July 1, 2012 at 11:28 pm)Godschild Wrote:

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Good to have you here, now do you think you've brought anything new to the table, nope, we've heard this stuff many times and it does not fly. Just who does Christianity control and for what purpose would Christianity need to control and who would it benefit, can you answer these questions.

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RD Wrote:"Just who does Christianity control and for what purpose would Christianity need to control and who would it benefit, can you answer these questions."
What, you want names?
Example; If the pope holds a mass he has his flocks undivided attention and obediance. This is beneficial for him and his religion because he can gain influence, money and power through this.
Fairly simple concept, rather stupid question.

Most of them are committing idolatry, this is a forbidden practice for Christians, no man is to place himself between the people and Christ, seems we have two violations of scriptural teachings. A case for doubting their authenticity. Now let's here about the Protestant denominations, you all are hung up on Catholics, why? Deal with the rest of use. The question was intelligent, it was the answer that came off stupid.

RD Wrote:Also, "whos looking to extend their life" is an equally stupid question. Everyone is, including yourself.
If you don't think so let me ask you a question:
You believe you'll go to heaven if you die as long as you don't commit suicide, yes? Why don't you roam the streets of a particularly dangerous city at night to increase the likelyhood you'll get murdered and go to heaven?
Please think before you type in future to avoid boring the shit out of the rest of us.

It would not matter what I said, your attention span is so short you would get bored.
I do not look to extend my life, my date of death is already known and I can not change it. I'm going to heaven period, get off the Catholic kick and learn something please. One can prematurely die by doing something like you have mentioned, seems stupidity resides with you.

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(July 2, 2012 at 7:05 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(July 1, 2012 at 11:28 pm)Godschild Wrote:

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Good to have you here, now do you think you've brought anything new to the table, nope, we've heard this stuff many times and it does not fly. Just who does Christianity control and for what purpose would Christianity need to control and who would it benefit, can you answer these questions.
Next, who is it looking to extend life, who is it that wants to see life extended, those who are afraid to die and it's not Christians. Christians have a future after bodily death, those who do not know God through Christ have no real future after bodily death. So with this reasoning it must be the unbeliever who wants life extended and if I'm not mistaken it is the unbelievers who are trying to extend life through chemicals, diet, or whatever. So go out there and work your butts off with exercise, eat your peanuts and veggies, pop your pills it could extend your life a couple years, in the end you will be worm food like the rest of us, that is until the second resurrection.

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You falsely think you chose to believe. If no one had introduced you to Christianity there would be any bribe or threat to keep you in it. We are not talking about human politics here. We are talking about the emotional blackmail religion is, which gets projected on politics.

But as a mere concept, it forgoes questioning and relies on the bribe of heaven and the threat of hell. Like an abusive spouse who promises the wife a ring if she stays but threatens her with a beating if she tries to leave.

Emotional blackmail in the form of bribes or threats is hardly moral and hardly a choice.

Robber, "I'll give you two choices. Give me your wallet and I'll let you live. Keep your wallet and I'll shoot you dead". Please explain to me how that can be a choice?

You have no choice, you have fallen for the utopia bribe of a fictional heaven under threats of hell. You'll give up reason first before you question this blackmail.

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I'm not blackmailed, pushed or threatened, I make my own decisions based on what I see as the truth, no matter what you say will change this, you should stop wasting your time telling people what you want them to be, arrogant you are.
As far as the wallet deal that's old hat get something new, I'm tired of such foolishness.

Godschild Wrote:I'm going to heaven period...

Your level of humility never ceases to astound me.

Godschild Wrote:I'm going to heaven period...

Not if you're wrong.

(July 2, 2012 at 4:03 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(July 1, 2012 at 11:34 pm)RaphielDrake Wrote:

(July 1, 2012 at 11:28 pm)Godschild Wrote:

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Good to have you here, now do you think you've brought anything new to the table, nope, we've heard this stuff many times and it does not fly. Just who does Christianity control and for what purpose would Christianity need to control and who would it benefit, can you answer these questions.

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RD Wrote:"Just who does Christianity control and for what purpose would Christianity need to control and who would it benefit, can you answer these questions."
What, you want names?
Example; If the pope holds a mass he has his flocks undivided attention and obediance. This is beneficial for him and his religion because he can gain influence, money and power through this.
Fairly simple concept, rather stupid question.

Most of them are committing idolatry, this is a forbidden practice for Christians, no man is to place himself between the people and Christ, seems we have two violations of scriptural teachings. A case for doubting their authenticity. Now let's here about the Protestant denominations, you all are hung up on Catholics, why? Deal with the rest of use. The question was intelligent, it was the answer that came off stupid.

RD Wrote:Also, "whos looking to extend their life" is an equally stupid question. Everyone is, including yourself.
If you don't think so let me ask you a question:
You believe you'll go to heaven if you die as long as you don't commit suicide, yes? Why don't you roam the streets of a particularly dangerous city at night to increase the likelyhood you'll get murdered and go to heaven?
Please think before you type in future to avoid boring the shit out of the rest of us.

It would not matter what I said, your attention span is so short you would get bored.
I do not look to extend my life, my date of death is already known and I can not change it. I'm going to heaven period, get off the Catholic kick and learn something please. One can prematurely die by doing something like you have mentioned, seems stupidity resides with you.

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(July 2, 2012 at 7:05 am)Brian37 Wrote:

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You falsely think you chose to believe. If no one had introduced you to Christianity there would be any bribe or threat to keep you in it. We are not talking about human politics here. We are talking about the emotional blackmail religion is, which gets projected on politics.

But as a mere concept, it forgoes questioning and relies on the bribe of heaven and the threat of hell. Like an abusive spouse who promises the wife a ring if she stays but threatens her with a beating if she tries to leave.

Emotional blackmail in the form of bribes or threats is hardly moral and hardly a choice.

Robber, "I'll give you two choices. Give me your wallet and I'll let you live. Keep your wallet and I'll shoot you dead". Please explain to me how that can be a choice?

You have no choice, you have fallen for the utopia bribe of a fictional heaven under threats of hell. You'll give up reason first before you question this blackmail.

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I'm not blackmailed, pushed or threatened, I make my own decisions based on what I see as the truth, no matter what you say will change this, you should stop wasting your time telling people what you want them to be, arrogant you are.
As far as the wallet deal that's old hat get something new, I'm tired of such foolishness.

If it is a choice then why the concept of hell? You didn't set up hell, and you were not asked before you were born if you wanted to take the risk of life or even maturing to the age of making the"choice". What knowledge of choice when your parents had sex did you have AT THAT MOMENT" What consent did you have, what knowledge did you have?

The truth is you fell for your superstition, not because heaven or hell are real, but because you needed an emotional crutch. If you had been born in Saudi Arabia you'd be raised a Muslim and swallow their superstitions, and pontificate about their promises of their version of heaven and fear their threats of hell.

Heaven and hell are broken concepts as claims. BUT if believers want to claim them, STRICTLY AS CLAIMS, the claim NO MATTER THE RELIGION, can only be seen rightfully as the blackmail it is.

You falsely see yourself as having a choice, because your abuser has already emotionally convinced you you have a choice.

I do not see any motif AS A CLAIM, when it gives you two choices

1. Be good and I'll give you a cookie
2. Defy me and I'll beat the shit out of you.

How is that moral? You use "choice" as a cop out. The problem is you value emotions over your rightful human right of your OWN CONSENT, which you have willfully forgone for a utopia you cannot prove exists.

The god/s of Abraham AS CHARACTERS, not real gods, value you as pawns, toys, minions, not to help you out, but to gain club members as per the writings of the respective books.

A choice, if you value yourself would be, you could not believe, and not want to hang out with anyone you don't chose, and if that person values human dignity, they wont try to bribe you, or threaten you, they will simply let you go your separate ways, WITHOUT PUNISHMENT.

Always keep in mind when I argue against your claim, I am not arguing against any real god. I am arguing against the claim you make.

Please if I have a choice, and you claim I have a choice, and I say I don't believe, where do I end up after I die?

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(July 2, 2012 at 4:30 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

Godschild Wrote:I'm going to heaven period...

Your level of humility never ceases to astound me.

I am sure the 9/11 Hijackers thought the same thing. But even they were "humble" enough to sacrifice themselves for the greater good of their god.

Here is what believers of all stripes don't want to face. Chasing utopias for the tribe, depending on money and politics and numbers, short term, may do that religion or sect good, but humans throughout history often miss that death is not an unavoidable thing and maybe we should see ourselves, not as pawns for comic book super heros OF ANY LABEL, but as humans.

Martyrs who claim "I am going to heaven" are as mundane as making a baby or taking a dump.

(July 2, 2012 at 4:03 pm)Godschild Wrote: I'm not blackmailed, pushed or threatened, I make my own decisions based on what I see as the truth, no matter what you say will change this, you should stop wasting your time telling people what you want them to be, arrogant you are.
As far as the wallet deal that's old hat get something new, I'm tired of such foolishness.

Brian37 Wrote:If it is a choice then why the concept of hell? You didn't set up hell, and you were not asked before you were born if you wanted to take the risk of life or even maturing to the age of making the"choice". What knowledge of choice when your parents had sex did you have AT THAT MOMENT" What consent did you have, what knowledge did you have?

You're right I had no choice in my birth, however I'm glad God wanted me and gave me a chance to make the choice of Him or hell. Hell and heaven are not concepts, they are real, all your rejection of them can not change them into a story book tale. I can not prove to you that God, heaven or hell are real, you are the only one who can make that decision, yes it is your choice. However you on the other hand can not disprove my belief, and you can in no way disprove my experiences with God. I know they are real and in the end, for me that is all that matters.

Brian37 Wrote:The truth is you fell for your superstition, not because heaven or hell are real, but because you needed an emotional crutch. If you had been born in Saudi Arabia you'd be raised a Muslim and swallow their superstitions, and pontificate about their promises of their version of heaven and fear their threats of hell.

I fell to no superstition and as I said above you can not prove different. I came to Christ later in my life, after I was away from home actually married to a wife who was not particularly religious. Who is to say I would not have become a Christian if I were born in any part of the Middle East, many have converted more than you might think. The problem with that little scenario is this, I was born where I was and that pertains to me and there is no need to speculate what would have happened since your scenario did not take place.

Brian37 Wrote:Heaven and hell are broken concepts as claims. BUT if believers want to claim them, STRICTLY AS CLAIMS, the claim NO MATTER THE RELIGION, can only be seen rightfully as the blackmail it is.

They are reality, not broken concepts, again you express an opinion you can not prove. If it were blackmail why would you choose different from my choice, granting you believed the God of scripture existed.

Brian37 Wrote:You falsely see yourself as having a choice, because your abuser has already emotionally convinced you you have a choice.

I do not see any motif AS A CLAIM, when it gives you two choices

1. Be good and I'll give you a cookie
2. Defy me and I'll beat the shit out of you.

How is that moral? You use "choice" as a cop out. The problem is you value emotions over your rightful human right of your OWN CONSENT, which you have willfully forgone for a utopia you cannot prove exists.

If you're referring to my parents it's a good thing you're not standing in front of me, the last person who did that in my face has real regrets for doing so. You can say about me what you want, leave out the good people who raised me. Your choice of the same old ideas that hold no water make it hard to have a debate. There is no "cop out" It's your problem you do not know God or even care to, I actually have no responsibility in that other than telling people about Christ, after that it's all on you and you alone. I do value emotions they are what makes life real I can not imagine living without them.

Brain37 Wrote:The god/s of Abraham AS CHARACTERS, not real gods, value you as pawns, toys, minions, not to help you out, but to gain club members as per the writings of the respective books.

A choice, if you value yourself would be, you could not believe, and not want to hang out with anyone you don't chose, and if that person values human dignity, they wont try to bribe you, or threaten you, they will simply let you go your separate ways, WITHOUT PUNISHMENT.

Now I see your problem, you know nothing about responsibility, respect, or consequences of life, you have never understood what it means to be an adult. I personally was taught these things, so that when I was old enough to make decisions I had the tools to do so.

'Brian37 Wrote:Always keep in mind when I argue against your claim, I am not arguing against any real god. I am arguing against the claim you make.

Please if I have a choice, and you claim I have a choice, and I say I don't believe, where do I end up after I die?

The answer you asked for in your last question is hell. You have been given ample opportunity to investigate and if you do not choose to do so then this is going to be what you asked for. Children are told certain foods are good for them and taste good, yet because of the way it looks they reject it, if they would only try they would find what they were told to be true.

(July 1, 2012 at 3:41 pm)NoFate Wrote: "Fear is the greatest power known to man, and fear is what religion is based on. It is the perfect means of control"


If you can convince the public that they have something or someone to fear then by ........

It's annoying to try to dominate through font size by way of introduction.

Quote:Godschild Wrote:I'm going to heaven period...

There go the property values.


What a shithole that place will be.

(July 2, 2012 at 6:12 pm)Godschild Wrote: I am going to heaven ...

.... And all will be happy, all the millions of creatures except the hundred thousand who rule over them. For only we, we who guard the mystery, shall be unhappy. There will be thousands of millions of happy babes, and a hundred thousand sufferers who have taken upon themselves the curse of the knowledge of good and evil.

Peacefully they will die, peacefully they will expire in Thy name, and beyond the grave they will find nothing but death. But we shall keep the secret, and for their happiness we shall allure them with the reward of heaven and eternity, Though if there were anything in the other world, it certainly would not be for such as they....

Brothers Karamozov Fyodor Dostoevsky