http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnYHDCjboIc

I think a lot here will appreciate this video I made

Comment welcome.

Christopher Hitchens died this year of cancer. He was a well known provocateur, known for his strong zelous take on atheism. Later in his life when he was near the end he got the most comfort from one of his few religious friends, who acted as his doctor for the last few months of his life.

A noted critic of religion and a self described "anti-theist", he said that a person "could be an atheist and wish that belief in external gods were correct", but that "an antitheist, a term I'm trying to get into circulation, is someone who is relieved that there's no evidence for such an assertion." According to Hitchens, the concept of an external god or a supreme being is a totalitarian belief that destroys individual freedom, and that free expression and scientific discovery should replace religion as a means of teaching ethics and defining human civilization. His 2007 book, God Is Not Great, sold over 500,000 copies.

He was not a scientist but a science journalist, and had some very controversial views. Implied in this speech playing now from his best friend (full version: is that sometimes he sensed an irony in his actions, a lot of the time he was playing devils advocate. For educational stimulation and to see how well the persons religious argument holds up to scrutiny.

The person speaking here is Lawrence Maxwell Krauss, a Canadian-American theoretical physicist who is a professor of physics, Foundation Professor of the School of Earth and Space Exploration, and director of the Origins Project at Arizona State University. He is the author of several bestselling books, including The Physics of Star Trek and A Universe from Nothing. He is an advocate of scientific skepticism, science education, and the science of morality.
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Christopher Hitchens was the shit.

zgregz Wrote:he said that a person "could be an atheist and wish that belief in external gods were correct", but that "an antitheist, a term I'm trying to get into circulation, is someone who is relieved that there's no evidence for such an assertion."

Huh? How can you wish gods existed but at the same time be relieved the evidence doesn't exist?

(July 2, 2012 at 1:55 am)FallentoReason Wrote:

zgregz Wrote:he said that a person "could be an atheist and wish that belief in external gods were correct", but that "an antitheist, a term I'm trying to get into circulation, is someone who is relieved that there's no evidence for such an assertion."

Huh? How can you wish gods existed but at the same time be relieved the evidence doesn't exist?

Same way you could wish that dragons exist.

I know they don't, but wouldn't it be great if they did.

The affects of Hitchens works will be felt for generations. For his likes, he has, given questioning stable and growing ground, and helped patch up Jefferson's wall that the right wing for the past 50 years sought to destroy.

While wrongfully reviled by the religious, they fail to see he wasn't a hero to atheists, he was a hero to the concept of individual freedom. "Jefferson, Author of America" is to me, his most important book. It is a demonstration that labels should not matter when it comes to the concepts put forth by Jefferson that both the believer and atheist can and do value.

His personal political views also demonstrated why labels should not matter. He hated the Clintons, was for the Iraq war, destroying the notion that non believers were all godless hippie commies.

He had lots of admiration even from his believing friends and many detractors. His wordsmith was always Oxford quality. Out off all the horsemen, Hitchens gave the atheists a more than any other, sense of identity and displayed fearlessness in questioning.

Believers should not fear his legacy any more than the church had any right fearing Galileo. They do have to fear him, not in a government oppression sense, but merely the mirror he put up to religion to say "really, this is what you claim?"

What else can be said other than humanity is better because he did not sit idly by and accept the status quo. He is one in human history in our species evolution, that served as a reminder that progress is not made stagnating in in the caves, and we only mature when we question social norms and lose or fear of leaving the caves of antiquity. Our future is brighter, if nothing else, he was a backstop to insure any form of state or religious fascism, because of questioning, is much harder now to take hold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qyjc4tIJK4Q

(July 2, 2012 at 7:01 am)Zen Badger Wrote:

(July 2, 2012 at 1:55 am)FallentoReason Wrote: Huh? How can you wish gods existed but at the same time be relieved the evidence doesn't exist?

Same way you could wish that dragons exist.

I know they don't, but wouldn't it be great if they did.

No, your example excludes the relief felt after knowing the evidence doesn't exist for dragons.

One can't wish for something to be so and simultaneously be relieved that it isn't so. If anything, that's a false sense of humility towards the truth, if that makes sense.

FallentoReason Wrote:One can't wish for something to be so and simultaneously be relieved that it isn't so. If anything, that's a false sense of humility towards the truth, if that makes sense.

I think you missed the 'but' in the original quote

"A noted critic of religion and a self described "anti-theist", he [Hitchens] said that a person [i.e., someone other than Hitchens] "could be an atheist and wish that belief in external gods were correct", but that "an antitheist, a term I'm trying to get into circulation, is someone who is relieved that there's no evidence for such an assertion."

Atheist = someone who could want theism to be true.
Antitheist = is glad theism isn't true.

I think that's what it's getting at.

(July 2, 2012 at 1:55 am)FallentoReason Wrote:

zgregz Wrote:he said that a person "could be an atheist and wish that belief in external gods were correct", but that "an antitheist, a term I'm trying to get into circulation, is someone who is relieved that there's no evidence for such an assertion."

Huh? How can you wish gods existed but at the same time be relieved the evidence doesn't exist?

Yes, just as I can wish dragons exist, but am relieves that our scientific understanding of biology that precludes fire breathing, but upon which my health and life may also one day depend, is correct.

(July 2, 2012 at 6:57 pm)Tempus Wrote:

FallentoReason Wrote:One can't wish for something to be so and simultaneously be relieved that it isn't so. If anything, that's a false sense of humility towards the truth, if that makes sense.

I think you missed the 'but' in the original quote

"A noted critic of religion and a self described "anti-theist", he [Hitchens] said that a person [i.e., someone other than Hitchens] "could be an atheist and wish that belief in external gods were correct", but that "an antitheist, a term I'm trying to get into circulation, is someone who is relieved that there's no evidence for such an assertion."

Atheist = someone who could want theism to be true.
Antitheist = is glad theism isn't true.

I think that's what it's getting at.

Wow... What's happened to my reading comprehension?!

You're right, it's two different people he's talking about.