So I'm finally of the age to vote now, only I don't know who to vote for, because I can't seem to get a straight answer on what stance each candidate takes on certain issues. I was wondering if somebody could please, briefly describe, in an unbiased, factual way, what Barack Obama's and Mitt Romney's stances are on current issues?

I realize that might be a hell of a lot to write out, and it might be a little pretentious of me to ask for it here. But I have had a rather difficult time finding any source that will give me a straight description of their stances without editorials or ad-hominem comments. If it is a lot to write out, maybe you know of a page that can tell me? If so, please post a link to it.

Answers I am looking for:

"Barack Obama believes this on current issues:"
"Mitt Romney believes this on current issues:"

Answers I am NOT looking for:

"Barack Obama is a communist who wants to steal our money, bla bla bla."
"Mitt Romney is a theocrat who wants to destroy separation of church and state, bla bla bla."

I greatly appreciate any help you guys can give me.

For civil liberties, Obama all day. Read this, Romney is very very bad on liberties, equal last, unsurprisingly, with Santorum. http://www.aclulibertywatch.org/ALWCandi...rtCard.pdf

For economy, Obama all day. Romney endorses the Ryan Plan which even now Republicans are starting to realise is a load off bullshit. It'd add massively the deficit, whilst not producing jobs(which they claim it will), and is no more than a tax cut for the wealthiest Americans. Bush did it in 01/02, it didn't work, and in fact its never ever worked anyway. The unemployment went up as did the deficit, which although Republicans blame on Obama, is NOT Obama's fault. It is the fault of the Banks and the fuckwit predecessor who cared not a lot about economics or jobs. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04...o-numbers/

I am a centre lefty myself so i cannot be entirely unbias. But if Romney stood for election here, he'd get no more than 1/5 of the votes, his ideas(or lack in some cases) are that bad. He's bad on economics and civil liberties and is the personification of Wall Street and what went wrong with it. I cannot think of a good reason too vote for him. If Eisenhower was standing i'd vote for him, he was more to the left than Obama. My how American politics has dived to the right.

Conservatism in America has sucked ass since Eisenhower's second term ended and they are now run by the fringe extreme right and Fox News.


Vote Obama just to ensure America doesn't have to suffer George Bush mark 2. I'm not going to even get into what Romney's foreign policy would look like............. ok quickly. War with Iran and a poor relationship with China, who will soon be the largest economy on the planet. It's normally good to keep economic giants on side.

They are both politicians, they'll say one thing and do another. They have both now been leaders and had a chance to at least try to make some changes, so I'd look at what they've done so far and whether that squares with their past promises, rather than what they promise to do in the future or what they say they believe.



...

Also, they are pretty much the same person.

(July 8, 2012 at 1:57 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: They are both politicians, they'll say one thing and do another. They have both now been leaders and had a chance to at least try to make some changes, so I'd look at what they've done so far and whether that squares with their past promises, rather than what they promise to do in the future or say they believe.



...

Also, they are pretty much the same person.

Utter rubbish. Read the civil liberties link i put on. Then look at their economic ideas, like the $447bn jobs bill Congress wouldn't pass, they didnt like the idea of massive employment. Then look at what Romney wants to do......... cut taxes, shock. Cut jobs, cut funding...... cut cut cut cut, and it will miraculously create jobs. Oh wait no, it'll shrink economy, increase unemployment and make the rich, richer.

Totally different no matter what your dog awful press says.

(July 8, 2012 at 2:04 pm)5thHorseman Wrote:

(July 8, 2012 at 1:57 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: They are both politicians, they'll say one thing and do another. They have both now been leaders and had a chance to at least try to make some changes, so I'd look at what they've done so far and whether that squares with their past promises, rather than what they promise to do in the future or say they believe.



...

Also, they are pretty much the same person.

Utter rubbish. Read the civil liberties link i put on. Then look at their economic ideas, like the $447bn jobs bill Congress wouldn't pass, they didnt like the idea of massive employment. Then look at what Romney wants to do......... cut taxes, shock. Cut jobs, cut funding...... cut cut cut cut, and it will miraculously create jobs. Oh wait no, it'll shrink economy, increase unemployment and make the rich, richer.

Totally different no matter what your dog awful press says.

What has Obama DONE on civil liberties? I don't much care what Romney has SAID he will do as he pandered to a bunch of raving lunatics in the primary (not that I trust or like the git, I will hate nearly every policy he comes up with, I just recognise that they will change).

NDAA
Indefinite detention
patriot act
ANOTHER war (surely Romney is entitled to one if Obama is? =P).
Free speech (zones) and protests.
Wikileaks prosecution.
californian weed (the whole war on drugs for that matter).
The bailouts, worse than socialism, corprotitism, privatising the gains and socialising the losses, and done in the worst possible way.
Gitmo
TSA
NSA
gay marriage support now after how long?
surveillance and privacy

Quote:"Freedom To Marry For Gay Couples (Read more on this)
Barack Obama's Rating:
Three Torches
§ Instructed the Justice Department in February 2011 to stop defending the Defense of Marriage Act;
§ Opposes a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage but does not support marriage equality;
§ Supports civil unions."

3/4 for THAT?

Quote:"Government Funded Religion (Read more on this)
Barack Obama's Rating:

Two Torches
§ 2011: Opposed reauthorization of a private and religious school voucher program in Washington, DC.
§ 2009: Expanded the federal government’s faith-based program.
§ 2008: Promised important changes to strengthen the constitutionality of faith-based initiatives but, since 2011, has failed to make any changes, including addressing the issue of whether faith-based grantees can hire and fire individuals based on religion."

2/4 for THAT?

Quote:Humane Immigration Policy (Read more on this)
Barack Obama's Rating:

Two Torches
§ Expanded “Secure Communities,” an enforcement program designed to arrest and deport undocumented criminals but that has resulted in racial profiling and the arrest of thousands of innocent immigrants and U.S. citizens;
§ Continued building a border fence and increased the border security budget and added more border patrol agents;
§ Opposes Arizona’s anti-immigrant SB 1070, which criminalizes the lack of immigration papers, gives police broad authority to arrest people and promotes racial profiling, as a law that undermines “fairness” and “trust.”;
§ Supports the DREAM Act, which provides access to higher education and military service to many, regardless of immigrant status;
§ Deported 1.1 million people in three years, the most of any administration.

2/4 for THAT?

They are just giving him torches

Ill get to the economics, romney's performance, and the jobs act tomorrow, it's late.
(from the more in depth candidate report, thinking its out of date what with obama's positions having evolved (and at such a convenient time as well)) http://www.aclulibertywatch.org/candidates/barack-obama

Quote:I greatly appreciate any help you guys can give me.

Stay away from FIX NEWS.


When the party platforms come out after the conventions read them and then make up your mind. Remember, these documents largely say what the candidate wants them to say because the candidate has the majority of the delegates to said convention.

It's July. You have plenty of time to decide.

(July 8, 2012 at 2:50 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: What has Obama DONE on civil liberties? I don't much care what Romney has SAID he will do as he pandered to a bunch of raving lunatics in the primary (not that I trust or like the git, I will hate nearly every policy he comes up with, I just recognise that they will change).

Let's take off the blinders and inspect pre-Obama issues (hell, many are issues from several presidents ago!) and Obama setting a precedent (bad Obama! No unicorn!):

(July 8, 2012 at 2:50 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: NDAA

Obama signed into law.

(July 8, 2012 at 2:50 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: Indefinite detention

W. Bush doctrine.

(July 8, 2012 at 2:50 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: patriot act

Also W. Bush.

(July 8, 2012 at 2:50 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: ANOTHER war (surely Romney is entitled to one if Obama is? =P).

We have another war?

Oh wait, you're talking about a preexisting, already funded by act of Congress program set up during the W. Bush.

(July 8, 2012 at 2:50 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: Free speech (zones) and protests.

Federal Restricted Buildings and Grounds Improvement Act, passed the House 399-3. Loosening of existing secret service protected entity rules such that knowing an area is restricted and violating it is grounds for arrest.

Obama signed into law.

(July 8, 2012 at 2:50 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: Wikileaks prosecution.

Obama's fault. (Though, on the other hand, many members of congress and the senate suggested a air strike, a seal squad, etc,.)

(July 8, 2012 at 2:50 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: californian weed (the whole war on drugs for that matter).

What?

You do realize the War on Drugs has been alive a long time...

An act of Congress and state referendums to declare the will of the people is going to end that, not the executive branch.

(July 8, 2012 at 2:50 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: The bailouts, worse than socialism, corprotitism, privatising the gains and socialising the losses, and done in the worst possible way.
Gitmo

Oh bailouts... are you an Obama created monster?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-2...03544.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_As...ef_Program

Whoops. Also a practice brought in under Bush.

Hmm, the more I look at it, the more Obama seems like Bush, except hes not white.

(July 8, 2012 at 2:50 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: TSA

Bush. Established by Act of Congress.

(July 8, 2012 at 2:50 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: NSA

The NSA has been around a long time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency

What?

(July 8, 2012 at 2:50 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: gay marriage support now after how long?

After Joe Biden opened his mouth.

(July 8, 2012 at 2:50 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: surveillance and privacy

Well before Obama, amplified by Bush, amplified by Obama. Majority through acts of congress to give various forms of immunity or laws to promote such.

(July 8, 2012 at 2:50 pm)Stue Denim Wrote:

Quote:"Freedom To Marry For Gay Couples (Read more on this)
Barack Obama's Rating:
Three Torches
§ Instructed the Justice Department in February 2011 to stop defending the Defense of Marriage Act;
§ Opposes a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage but does not support marriage equality;
§ Supports civil unions."

Compared to all previous presidents?

Yes. That also seems like a damning opinion of previous presidential administration policies.

Bored now. The rest of your critiques are stupidly expectant of liberal policy.

If you looked at how Congress votes on issues and how conservative (and batshit) certain States are of the Union, then it actually is not a shock to see Obama's policies as being significantly less conservative.

Note I did not say liberal.

Whilst I agree with Synackaon's evaluation, I think it says quite a lot when a president either doesn't make any attempt to undo obvious mistakes made by previous presidents (e.g. Patriot Act, TSA), or reneges on a campaign promise (e.g. closing Gitmo). This inaction doesn't put them in a positive light when it comes to civil rights.

That said, if I had the choice between Obama and Romney, and I had to choose one, I'd pick Obama. I just wouldn't like doing it.

The only 2 people better then Obama for civil liberties were, no surprise, Ron Paul(although some stances are sketchy for a so called libertarian), and even better, Gary Johnson.

Real Republicans should vote for Gary Johnson, not Romney. He's a good candidate as whilst you don't have to like his economics, you can't find much fault with his civil liberty ideas....... and i'm fairly sure Republicans always used to run on this topic back when they were a decent party.

IF I was an American,my current attitude would be the same as my attitude to the two major Australian parties;'A pox on both your houses'.

I would never have voted for Obama the first time. His only qualification for the job was that he was not George W Bush.Looking from the outside, Obama seems to have been the most inept US president since Jimmy Carter. Unlike Carter, I can seen no driving ideology or moral core,only expediency.

IF I was an American I would not be voting in the coming election.