(July 14, 2012 at 5:30 pm)spockrates Wrote: I don't pretend to know God very well, or with any certainty, but I am willing to question anything I know. As Socrates said:

"Wise I would not call us. Lovers of Wisdom (or philosophers) is a more fitting description."

(Phaedrus 278)

But that wasn't your OP claims, man..., you claim christianity, that is a stricter set of the usual deistic claims. You claim its illogical to not believe in gods when logic is only useffull applied to established facts and then when you have none, and that's whats dishonest, and it runs like the usual religionist argument, that instead of making a point, focuses on creating confusion. That's downright dishonest or naive to children level.

(July 14, 2012 at 5:40 pm)spockrates Wrote: Gambit:

Perhaps this would be a more complete and logical argument?

1. The Old Testament contains predictions of the future
2. These predictions are specific and verifiable
3. They are predictions their authors could never have known would occur
4. Only a God, or someone from the future would know the future with 100% accuracy 100% of the time
Therefore
A. The writing of the Old Testament was guided by God, or someone from the future

There's another, more obvious explanation. Those who wrote the NT, had the OT's predictions and wrote stories that filled them. :/

What I want to know is why you think christianity is more logical than Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, or any other deity worshiping religion.

Why are those other religions so illogical to you? When you can answer that, then you'll know why we think your religion is so illogical.

(July 14, 2012 at 5:34 pm)Annik Wrote: Christianity is illogical because there is not evidence for it (so why believe) and even if there was some evidence of gods, what makes you think it would be the Christian one? It doesn't make any sense. Plus, the Bible is riddled with inconsistency. Instead of changing it, it's explained away.

Hi Annik. What kind of evidence would you accept as proof, if someone actually could provide it?

(July 14, 2012 at 4:59 pm)spockrates Wrote:

(July 14, 2012 at 4:53 pm)Polaris Wrote: They at first become liberated, but only end up enslaved once more.

Can one truly be enslaved by one with whom he completely agrees? Consider a man who marries the perfect woman for him: Would you say his relationship enslaves him? If so, why?

If the woman he marries is but a figment of his imagination... then, yes, he's enslaved. A real live woman would have something to give back to him, yet an imaginary one would do nothing for him, no matter how much he did for her.

(July 14, 2012 at 5:44 pm)Annik Wrote:

(July 14, 2012 at 5:40 pm)spockrates Wrote: Gambit:

Perhaps this would be a more complete and logical argument?

1. The Old Testament contains predictions of the future
2. These predictions are specific and verifiable
3. They are predictions their authors could never have known would occur
4. Only a God, or someone from the future would know the future with 100% accuracy 100% of the time
Therefore
A. The writing of the Old Testament was guided by God, or someone from the future

There's another, more obvious explanation. Those who wrote the NT, had the OT's predictions and wrote stories that filled them. :/

Actually, I was thinking of predictions in the Old Testament that were of events that occurred prior to the New Testament.

(July 14, 2012 at 5:47 pm)spockrates Wrote: Hi Annik. What kind of evidence would you accept as proof, if someone actually could provide it?

Hello. I like your username. It made me giggle.

Scientific evidence, friend. Like maybe proof that there is some kind of 'Heaven' dimension or even something as simple has video of him magically helping someone with his wizard-powers. Proof that the universe was actually sparked by a creator. Proof of the Bible being historically accurate. Things along that line. The thing is, the more we dig, the worse it looks for gods.

Might I ask why you believe in Christianity to begin with?

EDIT: Any prediction that is made can be "fulfilled" in literature. I could write a book about how the Rapture occurred. In a thousand years, people could take this as fact. However, that does not make it so.

(July 14, 2012 at 5:44 pm)aleialoura Wrote: What I want to know is why you think christianity is more logical than Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, or any other deity worshiping religion.

Why are those other religions so illogical to you? When you can answer that, then you'll know why we think your religion is so illogical.

I have no reason to believe that they are, but perhaps you know and will show me?

The so called predictions can be shown to either be things that were originally not predictions, or "predictions" written after the fact to add credibility to new predictions (as in the case of Daniel). Fulfillment of OT predictions (not all of which were originally predictions in the first place) in the gospels can be explained as being fiction. You can find some good articles on bible prophecy here http://infidels.org/library/modern/theis...phecy.html

And this I think is the dumbest thing Spock ever said:

Quote:"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains (no matter how improbable) must be the truth."

(July 14, 2012 at 5:47 pm)spockrates Wrote: Hi Annik. What kind of evidence would you accept as proof, if someone actually could provide it?

Its not directed to me, but could your god show itself to our limited senses? why does such being necessitates worship?. Or is it a shy god? lolololol.