(July 19, 2012 at 3:51 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(July 19, 2012 at 3:46 pm)spockrates Wrote: Agreed. There might be some exceptions, but few (if any) Christians are really like the Christ they profess to imitate. Don't you think?

A lot are very good people and some are not. But most desire the life of this world.

However, this doesn't mean they are not Christians or believers in Jesus. They believe in him.

Christ is suppose to be perfect, of course, being perfect is not something I'm expecting from Christians.

True. No Christian is perfect, and some are hypocrites. I think there are some credible examples of those whose lives have been changed by their faith in him, however. The Jesus Movement of the 1960's in the United States turned the lives around of many drug addicts--some of whom are pastors today of churches with thousands of members. The Calvary Chapel denomination continues to show results, today, as many new members are former drug addicts and former street gang members. Perhaps there are both positive and negative examples within Christian circles?

But something you mentioned makes me curios. You said Christ is supposed to be perfect. Please explain your meaning.

(July 20, 2012 at 3:06 am)Undeceived Wrote: All Christians believe the original Hebrew text is divinely inspired (if they believe in inspiration at all). The problem arises when there is an ancient Hebrew word with a meaning translators are not sure of. Context is used, but sometimes context is not enough. In any case, we should be safe if (and as it appears) the Hebrew text hasn't changed. Dubious portions of scripture are few and far between. And they have no bearing on the overall message. With four Gospel accounts, it is clear that Jesus died, that He left the tomb, and that many people saw Him. There is no need to be worried about how Judas died. He was so grieved by his actions that he killed himself--that's all we need to know.

Hmmmmm . . . . . you seem to be saying don't bother about the details, just concentrate on the general sweep of the narative. The Xtian postition about bible accuracy is not usually "just feel the story though the actual details may be incorrect and contradictory.", and don't forget your OP was "Does the bible contradict itself?"

Isn't this just the familiar apologist position of "it is the inerrant word of god" when that suits and "things were different then, it should be interpreted like this . . . . ." when that suits.

Oh, and don't forget my question in post #172 of this thread.

Regards

Grimesy

In answer to the op...yes the bible is a mass of contradictions because it is an amalgamation of ALL superstitions held at that point in time. Should one want to follow such an out moded set of belief systems is a personal matter. For me give me scepticism and science to inquire about pertinent issues regarding humanity and our place in this world/ galaxy.

(July 20, 2012 at 8:29 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: In answer to the op...yes the bible is a mass of contradictions because it is an amalgamation of ALL superstitions held at that point in time. Should one want to follow such an out moded set of belief systems is a personal matter. For me give me scepticism and science to inquire about pertinent issues regarding humanity and our place in this world/ galaxy.

Thanks for the reply, Neko. I was actually wondering if the Bible is internally consistent, or if the authors of its books contradict each othe in some significant way. Many say its pages are replete with such contradictions. I'm wondering exactly what these are so I may examine them for myself.

(July 20, 2012 at 8:41 am)spockrates Wrote:

(July 20, 2012 at 8:29 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: In answer to the op...yes the bible is a mass of contradictions because it is an amalgamation of ALL superstitions held at that point in time. Should one want to follow such an out moded set of belief systems is a personal matter. For me give me scepticism and science to inquire about pertinent issues regarding humanity and our place in this world/ galaxy.

Thanks for the reply, Neko. I was actually wondering if the Bible is internally consistent, or if the authors of its books contradict each othe in some significant way. Many say its pages are replete with such contradictions. I'm wondering exactly what these are so I may examine them for myself.

I have given you four examples, two of which you discount as "mistranslations", another (the one about the dath of Judas) can be reconciled by constructing a narative that will fit - the other you have yet to answer (post #172).

Regards

Grimesy

(July 20, 2012 at 8:41 am)spockrates Wrote:

(July 20, 2012 at 8:29 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: In answer to the op...yes the bible is a mass of contradictions because it is an amalgamation of ALL superstitions held at that point in time. Should one want to follow such an out moded set of belief systems is a personal matter. For me give me scepticism and science to inquire about pertinent issues regarding humanity and our place in this world/ galaxy.

Thanks for the reply, Neko. I was actually wondering if the Bible is internally consistent, or if the authors of its books contradict each othe in some significant way. Many say its pages are replete with such contradictions. I'm wondering exactly what these are so I may examine them for myself.

Please call me Kichi!.... Neko = cat in romaji Japanese.

As for the babble...research it for your self is the best way. I did and followed up on the many belief systems prevalent at that time period and before. You will find a continuity only of imaginary friends and fiends. As for the rest?? Well Min is the best exponent of history we have here on this site (not to diminish the contributions of pad and others), take note of his/ their references and follow them through.
Cheers
Kichi

Spckrates Wrote:Is it OK if I ask your opinion of responses Christians have given me to the same question?

Absolutely. PM them to me or just post them in a thread, whichever you prefer.

(July 19, 2012 at 3:43 pm)Napoleon Wrote:

(July 19, 2012 at 3:30 pm)spockrates Wrote: Well, I would not go so far as to say the Bible is bollocks, but it seems to me that many who misread it are!

But how can you be sure that your interpretation is the correct one? When so many disagree with you, when it is ambiguous, when mistranslations have occurred, when the bible itself has been written and rewritten by all sorts of people throughout history?

It is by a mile, far more likely that a 'correct' interpretation does not exist.

Well, I'm not at all sure in a case where a biblical passage is ambiguous, or vague, but that does not mean that every passage is ambiguous, or vague. I'm not at all sure in a case where there is good evidence that a particular passage is a mistranslation of the original autograph, but that does not mean every passage of the Bible is mistranslated. I should be careful not to make any hasty generalizations. I should not throw out the baby with the bath water.

However, I am fascinated to hear you say the Bible has been rewritten so many times as to bear no significant resemblance to the original books. This is something I've not heard about the NT before, and I'd very much like to know why you hold this belief. Are you speaking of the New Testament as well as the Old? What evidence supports your premise?

Young Spock, you may wish to spend some time on this site http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

do your OWN research and come to your OWN logical conclusions

(July 20, 2012 at 9:03 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Young Spock, you may wish to spend some time on this site http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

do your OWN research and come to your OWN logical conclusions

This discussion thread is my current research, my good Kichi!

---

(July 20, 2012 at 8:52 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote:

(July 20, 2012 at 8:41 am)spockrates Wrote: Thanks for the reply, Neko. I was actually wondering if the Bible is internally consistent, or if the authors of its books contradict each othe in some significant way. Many say its pages are replete with such contradictions. I'm wondering exactly what these are so I may examine them for myself.

Please call me Kichi!.... Neko = cat in romaji Japanese.

As for the babble...research it for your self is the best way. I did and followed up on the many belief systems prevalent at that time period and before. You will find a continuity only of imaginary friends and fiends. As for the rest?? Well Min is the best exponent of history we have here on this site (not to diminish the contributions of pad and others), take note of his/ their references and follow them through.
Cheers
Kichi

Thanks, Kichi. Are you Japanese? My employer spent several years in Japan. (By the way, Spockrates = Spock + Socrates, but you may call me Spock, or Soc, or a stinky sock!)