(August 1, 2012 at 1:05 am)catfish Wrote:

(August 1, 2012 at 12:43 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: You're not good, you're horrible at this.
Its like watching someone kill themselves during a game of Russian roulette and in their death throws write "I'm winning" on the floor in their own blood.

The fact you made your reply in just over ten minutes proves you didn't even check the links which demonstrated your folly. If you deny the translation of hell that means you'd have to deny a sizable portion of the New Testament including alot of parts with Jesus preaching as he preaches about hell alot. To call hell a mistranslation you'd have to call quite a few of the preachings of Jesus and a sizable chunk of the New Testament a fabrication as they depend entirely on the understanding of hell as a firey and torturous place. You would know this had you checked the links. You've argued yourself into a corner because of your inbred intellect and I'm going to enjoy watching you try to squirm out of this one.

Is the new testament true... or is hell a mistranslation?
Go on then. :-)

Before I answer, I want to know your position here.
It appears that you, an atheist, are arguing from the point of view that the Bible is true. Did I just rescue your soul from the gates of Hades? Are you a "believer" now?

Are you, in fact, arguing that the NT is true? Or are you trying to dictate to me what I'm supposed to believe?

Nope, I don't believe any of it. I assumed because you obviously adhere to Christian theology that you believe the New Testament to be true.

If you don't then you should say so and specify which parts you do believe to be true, if any.

If you don't believe any are true then specify what you base your beliefs on.

(July 31, 2012 at 11:23 pm)catfish Wrote: Dude, I'm not gonna spoon-feed you knowledge. You must work for that yourself.

Re-read the thread. Get the gist of what I wrote. Look up the original words that were TRANSLATED to "hell". Bring those words back here and present your case as to why they mean "hell".

They sold you the lie, you bought the lie, you rejected the lie.

You don't have to still believe the lie numbnuts!

An interesting question, if only marginally so. They mean hell because they form the basis, in part, of what is meant by the word "hell" when someone uses it today. You having any luck with the search function?

That this place doesn't exist in reality, that it is a lie bought and sold should't even require mention. You aren't opening any non-believers eyes with that particular statement.

(August 1, 2012 at 1:12 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: Nope, I don't believe any of it. I assumed because you obviously adhere to Christian theology that you believe the New Testament to be true.

If you don't then you should say so and specify which parts you do believe to be true, if any.

Wow, you've read what I wrote and still need to ask if I think the NT is true? You're hopeless man, really hopeless.

But anyways, you're kinda a retard for arguing with me that hell is real since you just stated that you don't believe any of it. You coulda saved yourself a whole shitload of anguish had you just said in the beginning "yeah catfish, you're right. Hell is a lie...".

have fun

(August 1, 2012 at 1:12 am)Rhythm Wrote:

(July 31, 2012 at 11:23 pm)catfish Wrote: Dude, I'm not gonna spoon-feed you knowledge. You must work for that yourself.

Re-read the thread. Get the gist of what I wrote. Look up the original words that were TRANSLATED to "hell". Bring those words back here and present your case as to why they mean "hell".

They sold you the lie, you bought the lie, you rejected the lie.

You don't have to still believe the lie numbnuts!

An interesting question, if only marginally so. They mean hell because they form the basis, in part, of what is meant by the word "hell" when someone uses it today. You having any luck with the search function?

That this place doesn't exist in reality, that it is a lie bought and sold should't even require mention. You aren't opening any non-believers eyes with that particular statement.

http://www.biblicalheritage.org/BHR/BHR-67a.pdf

Small extracts of the link I posted:

"The Greek word
translated as`hell’ is
“geenna”, which 12 times in the New Testament.
This Greek word is a transliteration of the
Aramaic word “gehinnam.” The Aramaic word
is itself a transliteration of the Hebrew phrase --
begei ben hinnom. It would seem that the
translators would have reflected the Hebrew
meaning of the word in their work."

"the Greek word is a transliteration of the
Aramaicword“gehinnam.”The Aramaic word
is also a transliteration of the Hebrew phrase gehinnom. Let’s see what happens when we
translate it. The translation of “ge-“ is “valley
of.” “Hinnom” was the name of a person.
Therefore the correct translation is “ valley of Hinnom.”

---

(August 1, 2012 at 1:17 am)catfish Wrote:

(August 1, 2012 at 1:12 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: Nope, I don't believe any of it. I assumed because you obviously adhere to Christian theology that you believe the New Testament to be true.

If you don't then you should say so and specify which parts you do believe to be true, if any.

Wow, you've read what I wrote and still need to ask if I think the NT is true? You're hopeless man, really hopeless.

But anyways, you're kinda a retard for arguing with me that hell is real since you just stated that you don't believe any of it. You coulda saved yourself a whole shitload of anguish had you just said in the beginning "yeah catfish, you're right. Hell is a lie...".

have fun

I'm not arguing hell is real. If you paid any attention and weren't such a putrid waste of flesh you'd know that. Of course I'm also at fault, I assumed someone who reasons like they've been drop-kicked down the stairs afew times as a child would actually comprehend what I was writing.
I'm arguing that if you believe hell is not real and that it is a mistranslation then you cannot seriously believe any of the New Testament.

I want a clear answer; do you think the New Testament is true or not.
Answer or run away.
Your choice.

(August 1, 2012 at 1:21 am)RaphielDrake Wrote:

(August 1, 2012 at 1:17 am)catfish Wrote: Wow, you've read what I wrote and still need to ask if I think the NT is true? You're hopeless man, really hopeless.

But anyways, you're kinda a retard for arguing with me that hell is real since you just stated that you don't believe any of it. You coulda saved yourself a whole shitload of anguish had you just said in the beginning "yeah catfish, you're right. Hell is a lie...".

have fun

I'm not arguing hell is real. If you paid any attention and weren't such a putrid waste of flesh you'd know that. Of course I'm also at fault, I assumed someone who reasons like they've been drop-kicked down the stairs afew times as a child would actually comprehend what I was writing.
I'm arguing that if you believe hell is not real and that it is a mistranslation then you cannot seriously believe any of the New Testament.

I want a clear answer; do you think the New Testament is true or not.
Answer or run away.
Your choice.

I'm not gonna answer. You'll have to infer (or assume) my beliefs so that the next time I refute something in the bible, you'll make yourself appear as a total tool again trying to debate me.

(August 1, 2012 at 1:35 am)catfish Wrote:

(August 1, 2012 at 1:21 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: I'm not arguing hell is real. If you paid any attention and weren't such a putrid waste of flesh you'd know that. Of course I'm also at fault, I assumed someone who reasons like they've been drop-kicked down the stairs afew times as a child would actually comprehend what I was writing.
I'm arguing that if you believe hell is not real and that it is a mistranslation then you cannot seriously believe any of the New Testament.

I want a clear answer; do you think the New Testament is true or not.
Answer or run away.
Your choice.

I'm not gonna answer. You'll have to infer (or assume) my beliefs so that the next time I refute something in the bible, you'll make yourself appear as a total tool again trying to debate me.

Of course you're not. Your beliefs are "personal and unique" which translates as "cherrypicked", right?
Ha, no wonder you're retreating like a little bitch.
I'd make mince meat of you.

"Oh I believe the part about heaven and God and having angels suck my dick for all eternity... just not the rest of it."
"Personal and unique" my ass.

(August 1, 2012 at 1:39 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: Of course you're not. Your beliefs are "personal and unique" which translates as "cherrypicked", right?
Ha, no wonder you're retreating like a little bitch.
I'd make mince meat of you.

No you wouldn't, I kill you with one fucking line.

"I don't take the Bible litterally, do you?" End of fucking story, checkmate.

*edit
And for the record, the Bible actually supports "cherrypicking". Care to debate that fact too?

(August 1, 2012 at 1:44 am)catfish Wrote:

(August 1, 2012 at 1:39 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: Of course you're not. Your beliefs are "personal and unique" which translates as "cherrypicked", right?
Ha, no wonder you're retreating like a little bitch.
I'd make mince meat of you.

No you wouldn't, I kill you with one fucking line.

"I don't take the Bible litterally, do you?" End of fucking story, checkmate.

Thank you for confirming what I already suspected.
Oh and no, no its not the end by a long chalk. You've just marked the beginning.

What do you believe then?
Knowing the Bible cannot be taken literally and could be interpreted every which way how do you define your beliefs based upon it?
Couldn't you believe more or less what you want by carefully choosing and manipulating select quotes to mean what you want?

If I wanted to stone my nephews when they misbehave I could, according to the Bible. I don't even have to twist words to come to that conclusion, thats what it says:
Deuteronomy 21:18-21
“If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear"
Leviticus 20:9
"For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him"

Whats to stop you believing and doing what you want?

(August 1, 2012 at 1:46 am)RaphielDrake Wrote: If I wanted to stone my nephews when they misbehave I could, according to the Bible. I don't even have to twist words to come to that conclusion, thats what it says:
Deuteronomy 21:18-21
“If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear"
Leviticus 20:9
"For anyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother; his blood is upon him"

Whats to stop you believing and doing what you want?

Is that supposed to be God's law there?

Oh- cherry picking is in is it?

I conveniently decide to cherry pick some other verse or translation -one that does not support cherry picking, and that makes you wrong (and just go ahead and assume that any verse you offer I will disagree with, instead preferring a different verse and interpretation which is in complete opposition). You would disagree, but if we're cherry picking, then any criticisms of my appraisal of the text are immediately relevant to your own. What you mean here, in truth, is that you feel that you are justified in cherry picking- but by your criticisms of other's beliefs you are clearly unwilling to extend this invitation to cherry pick to anyone beyond yourself.

Not exactly a compelling argument. Also, pretty much a douche-move, conversationally speaking.