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LastPoet · August 19, 2012 at 10:49 am

Because he's a pig ignorant fuckwit that really wants very much that his late bronze age myth to be true?

genkaus · August 19, 2012 at 12:27 pm

(August 19, 2012 at 10:07 am)elunico13 Wrote: Well that will be easy since people use evolution to justify inequality.

Stephen J. Gould, in Natural History (April 1980, p. 144), said that “Recapitulation [the evolutionary theory which postulates that a developing embryo in its mother’s womb goes through evolutionary stages, such as the fish stage, etc., until it becomes human] provided a convenient focus for the pervasive racism of white scientists; they looked to the activities of their own children for comparison with normal, adult behavior in lower races” (brackets mine). Gould also concludes that the term “mongoloid” became synonymous with mentally defective people because it was believed the Caucasian race was more highly developed than the Mongoloid. Therefore, some thought that a mentally defective child was really a throwback to a previous stage in evolution.

Recapitulation is a defunct theory and if you actually understood what you wrote, you'd realize that Gould is talking about how concepts of evolution can be misrepresented and misconstrued to serve racist agenda. Use of perverted forms of valid evolutionary concepts to justify inequality is not actual evidence of inequality.

(August 19, 2012 at 10:07 am)elunico13 Wrote: I also want to add:
You're still assuming rights are important to justify rights are important.

You're wrong. No such assumption has been made.

(August 19, 2012 at 10:07 am)elunico13 Wrote: Also, evolution doesn't explain why we have autonomy.

Yes, it does. Autonomy is the result of rational faculty which developed via evolution.

(August 19, 2012 at 10:07 am)elunico13 Wrote: Being evolved from an accident would mean any actions such as murder, rape, pedophilia would just be the result of the same accident.

Good thing it wasn't an accident then.

(August 19, 2012 at 10:07 am)elunico13 Wrote: The pedophile can then get away with "I was born like this" if you disagree then you deny what evolution caused him to do.

No one is stopping the pedophile from feeling attraction towards little children. But that attraction isn't the only facet he was born with. He is also a rational human being and because of that he is held responsible for his actions.

(August 19, 2012 at 10:07 am)elunico13 Wrote: It's still you personal moral opinion over someone else.

No, when it comes to encroaching on someone else's autonomy, it becomes a matter of moral fact.

**DeistPaladin** · August 19, 2012 at 12:44 pm

Back to the OP, here is the last in the installment of the series:

elunico13 · August 21, 2012 at 11:15 am

(August 19, 2012 at 12:27 pm)genkaus Wrote: Gould is talking about how concepts of evolution can be misrepresented and misconstrued to serve racist agenda. Use of perverted forms of valid evolutionary concepts to justify inequality is not actual evidence of inequality.

Your right. People can use evolution to come up with these assumptions. How do you think abortion is supproted.
Of course I don't believe the evolution of one cell producing itself and all of life coming from it because of accidental mutations.

Thanks for your response.

**Minimalist** · August 21, 2012 at 12:30 pm

Quote:How do you think abortion is supproted.

I support it because it is no business of mine how many kids a woman I don't even know wants to have.

Oh, and it is no business of yours either.

genkaus · August 21, 2012 at 5:18 pm

(August 21, 2012 at 11:15 am)elunico13 Wrote: Your right. People can use evolution to come up with these assumptions.

Using perverted forms of the concept is not the same as using the concept itself.

(August 21, 2012 at 11:15 am)elunico13 Wrote: How do you think abortion is supproted.

By the right of the woman over the fate of her own body.

(August 21, 2012 at 11:15 am)elunico13 Wrote: Of course I don't believe the evolution of one cell producing itself and all of life coming from it because of accidental mutations.

Good thing your beliefs have no bearing on reality. As it stands, they have no connection to it either.

Seeing as you have made no arguments regarding human rights, I assume you concede the debate.

elunico13 · August 21, 2012 at 5:41 pm

(August 21, 2012 at 5:18 pm)genkaus Wrote:
(August 21, 2012 at 11:15 am)elunico13 Wrote: How do you think abortion is supproted.

By the right of the woman over the fate of her own body.

This is where the "IF" comes in concerning the rights of others. "IF" justifies your support of a woman killing her baby which is a part of her. Ok got it.

This is how you answered me concerning rights being imprtant.

Rights are the social recognition of your identity as a human being.
It is the sanction given as a result of acceptance of your capacity for autonomy and rationality.

Who are you trying to force to recognize others socially by rights?
Where do you get this?

Who is obligated to accept anyone's autonomy and rationality in a world that was formed by random mutations with no intelligence behind the forming of life?

Your foundation for all this is everything created itself. Rational? No. scientifically impossible.

Cato · (This post was last modified: August 21, 2012 at 6:31 pm by Cato.)

(August 21, 2012 at 5:41 pm)elunico13 Wrote: This is where the "IF" comes in concerning the rights of others. "IF" justifies your support of a woman killing her baby which is a part of her. Ok got it.

This is how you answered me concerning rights being imprtant.

Rights are the social recognition of your identity as a human being.
It is the sanction given as a result of acceptance of your capacity for autonomy and rationality.

Who are you trying to force to recognize others socially by rights?
Where do you get this?

Who is obligated to accept anyone's autonomy and rationality in a world that was formed by random mutations with no intelligence behind the forming of life?

Your foundation for all this is everything created itself. Rational? No. scientifically impossible.

Let this be a primer on biblical ideas regarding abortion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq3U09DeKpg

If your contention is that morality is impossible without the Bible, I give you this as a means of demonstrating that, despite your inane assertions how people (and philosophers) consider evolution's potential impact on ethics, that the conversation is far beyond settled and this is the level of consideration that the topic deserves.

http://tannerlectures.utah.edu/lectures/...nett88.pdf

Notice the date on the lecture. You can also consult Richard Joyce's The Evolution of Morality (1996). I am not invoking Joyce as an updated definitive source, but encourage you to follow the trail of the debate. You of course won't do this since your intent is only to shove down our throats the ignorant moralizing of barbarians as a guide for modern ethics.

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: August 21, 2012 at 7:01 pm by The Grand Nudger.)

(August 21, 2012 at 5:41 pm)elunico13 Wrote: Who is obligated to accept anyone's autonomy and rationality in a world that was formed by random mutations with no intelligence behind the forming of life?

Anyone who wishes to have their own autonomy and rationality recognized.....?

I'm sure Genk will have something more eloquent to say here...but I couldn't help but point out the obvious.

**Minimalist** · August 21, 2012 at 6:58 pm

Quote:Who is obligated to accept anyone's autonomy and rationality in a world that was formed by random mutations with no intelligence behind the forming of life?

You have convinced me that there was no intelligence behind the forming of YOUR life.

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