(August 23, 2012 at 12:16 pm)Minimalist Wrote: No. Our elections are a sham because of the two-party system ( about the only thing the two parties agree upon ) and the primary system.

Yes, and why do we have a two-party system? I can assure you it is not because of principled outliers like me. It is because of people who always vote for the two-party system and justify it with the "lesser of two evils" philosophy. As Noam Chomsky said, polls shows the population is left of both parties.

And let me just add that as we disagree, I respect you and I know we probably have similar political wishes. It is just the course of action we do not agree on.

Your course of action will result in the opposite of what you want.

Like it or not, we have to live in the real world. ( Except the jesus freaks, of course.... they have their own reality.) The rest of us are stuck with the fact that either Obama or Romney WILL be elected.

(August 23, 2012 at 12:32 pm)goddamnit Wrote:

(August 23, 2012 at 12:16 pm)Minimalist Wrote: No. Our elections are a sham because of the two-party system ( about the only thing the two parties agree upon ) and the primary system.

Yes, and why do we have a two-party system? I can assure you it is not because of principled outliers like me. It is because of people who always vote for the two-party system and justify it with the "lesser of two evils" philosophy. As Noam Chomsky said, polls shows the population is left of both parties.

And let me just add that as we disagree, I respect you and I know we probably have similar political wishes. It is just the course of action we do not agree on.

We have a two party system for the same reason that the founding fathers made slaves count as 3/5ths a person, only gave land-owning, white males the vote, and created the electoral college, which was to ensure that our political system would be run by wealthy, preferably white males. Because the founding fathers were a product of their times, their views, however noble for their time those view may be, were still far from egalitarian by today's standards.
The system was made rigged. It'll take constitutional amendments to un-rig it. That takes congress. We need to worry about state and local elections. It's gotta start from the bottom up. Meaningful social change always starts at the bottom. Change that is simply handed down by the powers that be is seldom a no-strings-attached gift.
Within the confines of our current political structure, the lesser of two evils is the best we can hope for. I understand what you're getting at, but the American proletariats won't rise up until it gets a lot worse.

Actually, there is nothing about political parties in the constitution so a popular movement could succeed....if the right leader could come along and energize people.

However, here are just two examples of the kind of shenanigans which go on.

http://www.greenwich-post.com/online/dai...idate.html


http://www.lp.org/blogs/staff/republican...nnsylvania

Lol!!!

(August 23, 2012 at 3:02 pm)A Theist Wrote: Lol!!!

Good contribution.

(August 23, 2012 at 3:02 pm)A Theist Wrote: Lol!!!

Because crooked political obstructionism is hilarious?

(August 23, 2012 at 12:28 pm)Stue Denim Wrote: What would happen if everyone who thinks that way, who thinks that they should just vote for obama/romney cause 'he's at least the lesser of two evils' actually voted for who they really wanted to run the country?

That would actually be very bad. We might get a leader who represents the general people instead of Goldman Sachs.

(August 23, 2012 at 3:59 pm)goddamnit Wrote: That would actually be very bad. We might get a leader who represents the general people instead of Goldman Sachs.

This is coming from the genius who ignores history, ignores the leeching of fiscal conservative votes that Perot did during the Clinton/H.W. Bush election and puts forth an action plan during one of the most polarized periods of US History that will result in political suicide for their voting bloc by splitting it.

Fuck you.

REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Stat...tion,_1992

In 2000, Nadar voters thought the same thing.

This, and a rigged SCOTUS decision, gave us Dubya.

Unless you live in a bright red state, like mine, hold your nose and vote for Obama. The time for a progressive takeover of the Democrat Party will have to be during the primaries.

I don't like it either but it's the best realistic option I see.