(August 24, 2012 at 8:35 am)A Theist Wrote: I have to disagree with you here. I have a couple of conservative friends who are atheists. But I do find it interesting how your fellow leftwingers and liberals are all over you like a school of Piranhas because you dared to disagree with them over Obama. They believe you should think as they do. Any stepping outside of their bubble is disloyalty as far as they're concened....and as you predicted, you pissed them off.

There's a lot of bitterness over how much the right wing has fucked this country up so any suggestion of splitting the opposition vote is a hot button issue.

(August 23, 2012 at 12:32 pm)goddamnit Wrote: Yes, and why do we have a two-party system? I can assure you it is not because of principled outliers like me. It is because of people who always vote for the two-party system and justify it with the "lesser of two evils" philosophy. As Noam Chomsky said, polls shows the population is left of both parties.

And let me just add that as we disagree, I respect you and I know we probably have similar political wishes. It is just the course of action we do not agree on.

I think you greatly over-estimate the power of the office of the president. In an era of extreme polarization it will be very hard for any leader to get congress to work on, let alone solve, any of our pressing problems. Would someone outside either party have greater support than one from within the dominant parties? I strongly doubt it. That assumes more genuine concern for the public good than I think most of our representatives truly possess. That is such a cynical thing for me to say but tragically it is probably true.

So the power of the office of the president is limited for constructive change without consensus and cooperation. But it can be used for great mischief militarily and, as the enforcement branch of government, it can also do great harm by failure to regulate. Guess what? Those are that is exactly what the republican party stands for .. American exceptionalism and laissez faire.

(August 24, 2012 at 9:55 am)DeistPaladin Wrote:

(August 24, 2012 at 8:35 am)A Theist Wrote: I have to disagree with you here. I have a couple of conservative friends who are atheists. But I do find it interesting how your fellow leftwingers and liberals are all over you like a school of Piranhas because you dared to disagree with them over Obama. They believe you should think as they do. Any stepping outside of their bubble is disloyalty as far as they're concened....and as you predicted, you pissed them off.

There's a lot of bitterness over how much the right wing has fucked this country up so any suggestion of splitting the opposition vote is a hot button issue.

Except that it's the leftwing screwing this country up. I agree that a splitting vote can be a hot button issue, but it is his vote.

(August 23, 2012 at 7:05 pm)goddamnit Wrote: If Obama gets elected, it is not my fault unless I voted for him. If Romney gets elected, it is not my fault unless I voted for him. I can't believe you are an atheist.

Gullible, ignorant and stupid. You've won the trifecta.

(August 24, 2012 at 8:35 am)A Theist Wrote: But I do find it interesting how your fellow leftwingers and liberals are all over you like a school of Piranhas because you dared to disagree with them over Obama. They believe you should think as they do. Any stepping outside of their bubble is disloyalty as far as they're concened....and as you predicted, you pissed them off.

I think it's less about disagreeing over Obama and more about criticizing the manner and the timing (too late) of his proposal. From what I've read it seems most people in this thread have tried to make the point that he's doing something against his own interests rather than just theirs. No one's making him vote one way or the other. He's posted an opinion and others have posted theirs. Your choice of phrasing and diction makes it sound like some sort of totalitarian regime...

I don't know if it really is too late or not. I'm curious as to how Jill Stein could even win at this stage given that I barely know she is (surely a bad sign given the elections are in November). And how's she going to compete against the highly funded two parties? I'm not opposed to voting for her, but if she hasn't a chance of winning it's a wasted vote. Also, I disagree that it's solely about having that attitude. If a candidate has too little exposure and resources I don't think it matters how optimistic your attitude is...

(August 24, 2012 at 10:23 am)A Theist Wrote: Except that it's the leftwing screwing this country up.

How so?

(August 24, 2012 at 10:23 am)A Theist Wrote: Except that it's the leftwing screwing this country up.

Yeah, I know. I'm so ashamed that the left wing in this country lied us into the costly and destructive quagmire in Iraq that cost thousands of our finest and over a trillion dollars, and... Oh, wait, that was your side.

Well, the left wing in this country has systematically destroyed the middle class by busting up all the unions, sending jobs overseas and shifting the tax burden away from the wealthiest 1% onto the backs of future generations and... oh, wait, that was your side.

OK, the left wing has pushed for deregulation, allowing banks to get "too big to fail" and created a system of socialized risk, privatized profits that encourage reckless investments requiring one bailout after another, creating the total economic meltdown in 2008 and... Oops, that's your side again.

Sure, but the left wing has been a disaster on social issues pushing for "no child left behind" and "abstinence only sex education" both of which have proven to be failures and... whoops, your team again.

But then there's the deficit, out of control because of the reverse-Robin-Hood style tax cuts, Cold-War-level military spending and "elective wars" plus the economic down turn which is all the fault of ...your side again.

Sorry, A Theist, but with power comes responsibility. Your team had total control for 8 years and got everything they wanted with no compromises or strings attached. The end result by the close of 2008 was disaster on all fronts.

Also sorry we're not cleaning up the mess fast enough. From 2009-2010, we had two years of gridlock, constant filibustering and heavy compromise to deal with. Maybe if your team wasn't throwing monkey wrenches into the machine every chance they get, we might be able to do better.

When are conservatives going to admit that your policies, from trickle down to abstinence only, don't work?

(August 24, 2012 at 10:23 am)A Theist Wrote:

(August 24, 2012 at 9:55 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: There's a lot of bitterness over how much the right wing has fucked this country up so any suggestion of splitting the opposition vote is a hot button issue.

Except that it's the leftwing screwing this country up. I agree that a splitting vote can be a hot button issue, but it is his vote.

Who made that deficit in the first place? Reagan.

Who lowered it? Clinton (and passed on a massive surplus)

Who cost the US $tn's from stupid tax cuts and wars? Bush.


Economies cannot be turned round by just cutting like the Republicans want. If that happens the economy will shrink, drastically, and the debt will become higher as a % of GDP, which is the yardstick used.



Had Clinton era policies continued, the US would be on solid ground now, but no, as usual the Republicans have to ruin the economy. They've not balanced the budget since Eisenhower, why on earth would anyone believe their ideas will work now?

But please, do tell us how the left have screwed the country.

It's really awesome, isn't it? You've got only two choices. You can either vote for these or not vote at all. No third party? Really?

Quote:Except that it's the leftwing screwing this country up.

You truly are an astounding shithead, aren't you? How does one get so totally fucked up? Must waste a lot of time listening Rush Limbaugh.

Your rich buddies - I assume that you personally are a multi-billionaire otherwise you are just a stupid tool of the upper 1% - are fucking over the entire country and have been since that senile old fuck Reagan was elected.

Curiously, Reagan would be run out of todays Naz.... um, Republicunt party for being too "moderate."

(August 24, 2012 at 11:47 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Except that it's the leftwing screwing this country up.

You truly are an astounding shithead, aren't you? How does one get so totally fucked up? Must waste a lot of time listening Rush Limbaugh.

Your rich buddies - I assume that you personally are a multi-billionaire otherwise you are just a stupid tool of the upper 1% - are fucking over the entire country and have been since that senile old fuck Reagan was elected.

Curiously, Reagan would be run out of todays Naz.... um, Republicunt party for being too "moderate."

Lol! Calm yourself old hippie dude. You're gonna have a geriatric meltdown.

You're watching too much of that leftist propaganda from the talking pumpkin heads like Ed 'shit for brains' Schultz on MSLSD news. You need to stop drinking the Obama kool aid. Your brain's turning to silly putty.