(August 29, 2012 at 3:04 pm)spockrates Wrote: Is there anyone here who disagrees that to experience is to know and there are some things that can only be known through experience?

No, to experience is not to know.

Jimi Hendrix - Are You Experienced?

If you can just get your mind together
Then come on across to me
We'll hold hands and then we'll watch the sunrise
From the bottom of the sea

But first, are you experienced?
Have you ever been experienced?
Well, I have

I know, I know you probably scream and cry
That your little world won't let you go
But who in your measly little world
Are you trying to prove that
You're made out of gold and, eh, can't be sold

So, are you experienced?
Have you ever been experienced?
Well, I have

Let me prove you...

Trumpets and violins I can hear in distance
I think they're calling our names
Maybe now you can't hear them, but you will
If you just take hold of my hand

Oh, but are you experienced?
Have you ever been experienced?
Not necessarily stoned, but beautiful...

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(August 29, 2012 at 3:14 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(August 29, 2012 at 3:04 pm)spockrates Wrote: Is there anyone here who disagrees that to experience is to know and there are some things that can only be known through experience?

No, to experience is not to know.

How do you know to experience is not to know? Do you know what it's like to get high? Can someone know this apart from the experience?

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(August 29, 2012 at 3:12 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(August 29, 2012 at 3:04 pm)spockrates Wrote: Is there anyone here who disagrees that to experience is to know and there are some things that can only be known through experience?

If you mean "know" in the epistemological sense of justified true belief, then yes, I disagree. Our senses and perception of reality do not necessarily convey an accurate picture of reality.

Replace "know" and "known" with something else, and perhaps we might find agreement.

No, I mean know in every sense. For isn't that what knowing all is?

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You see? Once we say God actually knows all (rather than has the ability to know all) then we begin to a psychedelic fall into the depths of the rabbit hole. If nothing escapes his knowing, then how can God not know what every experience is like? And how can any experience be known apart from experiencing it? The serpent is right, after all--God is the most experienced of all! That's how he knows both good and evil.

(August 29, 2012 at 3:17 pm)spockrates Wrote: How do you know to experience is not to know?

Because I have experienced the experience of having experiend but still not knowing, and this experience allowed me to know that to experience is not to know.

(August 29, 2012 at 5:26 am)spockrates Wrote: Hmmm. I thought the problem lies in whether or not it is possible to limit one's knowledge of the future.

Well, that's troubling...since I've spent the last few pages explaining to you why this is not the case, and a great many more pages explaining the problems with precognition, predestination, free will, and consequence.

Quote: But perhaps you missed the question? (It's that delicious looking cherry tomato on top. You should try it. You might find you like it!)

I didn't miss your goddamned question, ffs....

Quote:According to your understanding of omniscience, would you say there is nothing that is impossible for God (if God exists) to know?

Omni is, again...by definition, total. This is not my understanding of omniscience, it is the fucking definition. I also went the extra mile, and explained to you why it wouldn't matter what this god chose to know. For some strange reason...you came away feeling that I hadn't answered your question........and so I've been asked to repeat myself, again.

(pro-tip, attempting equivocation by invoking my "faith" will be a frustrating experience for you)

(August 29, 2012 at 3:49 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(August 29, 2012 at 3:17 pm)spockrates Wrote: How do you know to experience is not to know?

Because I have experienced the experience of having experiend but still not knowing, and this experience allowed me to know that to experience is not to know.

Indeed. There are different kinds of knowing. The question to which I want to know the answer is this: Since God is all-knowing, does that mean he knows all there is to know? If he knows all there is to know, is there any kind of knowing he does not know?

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(August 29, 2012 at 3:55 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(August 29, 2012 at 5:26 am)spockrates Wrote: According to your understanding of omniscience, would you say there is nothing that is impossible for God (if God exists) to know?

Omni is, again...by definition, total. This is not my understanding of omniscience, it is the fucking definition. I also went the extra mile, and explained to you why it wouldn't matter what this god chose to know. For some strange reason...you came away feeling that I hadn't answered your question........and so I've been asked to repeat myself, again.

(pro-tip, attempting equivocation by invoking my "faith" will be a frustrating experience for you)

So God is experienced?

(August 29, 2012 at 8:34 am)spockrates Wrote: Yes, I agree any concept of this God (if God exists) must be logical.

I very much doubt this. So far in just this thread any attempt at reason has been met with such disdainful repulsion that I am reminded of cheesy b movie double takes when a vampire sees a cross.

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(August 29, 2012 at 3:58 pm)spockrates Wrote: So God is experienced?

Kindly point to anything in my response that this follows from?

To be at least somewhat tolerant.

(August 29, 2012 at 4:00 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(August 29, 2012 at 3:58 pm)spockrates Wrote: So God is experienced?

Kindly point to anything in my response that this follows from?

You said omni is total. Since God has total knowledge, I'm assuming this means there is no knowledge that can possibly be deducted from what he knows. So are you thinking God is experienced? Is there no experience God does not know?

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(August 29, 2012 at 4:09 pm)MeasH Wrote: To be at least somewhat tolerant.

Good thing to be!

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So is there anyone here who really thinks Christians believe God is fully experienced in everything there is to experience?

If not, then is there any reason left to believe they know there is nothing God does not know?

For isn't experience knowledge one must experience to possess?

(August 29, 2012 at 3:58 pm)spockrates Wrote: The question to which I want to know the answer is this: Since God is all-knowing,

Based on what? Did god tell you? How would even god know that he is omniscient, since any knowledge of his lack of omniscience could itself simply lie outside the complete set of god's knowledge, couldn't it?

(August 29, 2012 at 3:58 pm)spockrates Wrote: does that mean he knows all there is to know? If he knows all there is to know, is there any kind of knowing he does not know?

No, it just means he is full of himself in a way a desert goat fucking patriarch might have been full of himself.

(August 29, 2012 at 5:17 pm)Chuck Wrote:

(August 29, 2012 at 3:58 pm)spockrates Wrote: The question to which I want to know the answer is this: Since God is all-knowing,

Based on what? Did god tell you? How would even god know that he is omniscient, since any knowledge of his lack of omniscience could itself simply lie outside the complete set of god's knowledge, couldn't it?

Based on what Rhythm, Cato and Mister Agenda tell me. It seems you disagree with them, too--though for different reasons. I'm thinking God cannot be experienced. You appear to be thinking God cannot lack ignorance.