Quote:I've seen no good evidence to suggest that Jesus (or Christus/Chrestus as he would have been known to the Romans) ever existed, let alone was crucified at the cross. The Josephus reference was likely inserted at a later date (By Eusebius, but Minimalist can tell you a lot more about how little evidence there is for the existence of Jesus).

Okay your other arguments are pretty good and as greneknight has said, it's hard to prove God's existence.

However, I am pretty sure, like 100% that Jesus was a real guy. It's in my freaking history textbook, and it was a pretty neutral view about the topic. Jesus was a real guy. A guy preaching about how he was the Son of God 2,000 years ago. That is indisputable fact.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
Go figure.

Quote:a) Don use the No true Scotsman fallacy. Saying that all who say they believe in Christ aren't Christians is absurd. Just because you can't agree with all sects within your cult doesn't give you the ability nor right to decide who's a true follower or not.
b) You said "and open relationship with God", you didn't specify the god. I guess you mean the god of the desert, but there are so many more out there, which people here have already pointed out to you. So, from your statement it can be deduced that an open relationship with any god makes one a christian.

a)I did not use it. I am just saying a real Christian would have a relationship with God and not just go to church for the sake of it and not learn anything there.

b) Seriously, who did you think I was referring to? Fine, I am referring to the Christian God, seriously people.

CBA222 Wrote:It's in my freaking history textbook

That's your evidence.... I'm telling you, the fathers of history of that time have not a word to say about Jesus. How did you textbook come to its conclusion? Thin air?

(August 30, 2012 at 8:16 am)CBA222 Wrote: Okay your other arguments are pretty good and as greneknight has said, it's hard to prove God's existence.

There's probably a very obvious reason that this is the case...

Quote:However, I am pretty sure, like 100% that Jesus was a real guy. It's in my freaking history textbook, and it was a pretty neutral view about the topic. Jesus was a real guy. A guy preaching about how he was the Son of God 2,000 years ago. That is indisputable fact.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
Go figure.

Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius....go figure indeed.

Quote:a)I did not use it. I am just saying a real Christian would have a relationship with God and not just go to church for the sake of it and not learn anything there.

Perhaps True Christians™ go to church and learn nothing because there is nothing to be learned at a church?

Quote:b) Seriously, who did you think I was referring to? Fine, I am referring to the Christian God, seriously people.

Which christian god?

Quote:Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius....go figure indeed.

Mind explaining? If professional historians say so I don't know how your word stands for much.

Quote:Perhaps True Christians™ go to church and learn nothing because there is nothing to be learned at a church?

Really? That's your argument? You knew what I meant. Honestly.

Quote:Which christian god?

Wut?

Well, at least you're not totally obnoxious. I can't say I was very convinced by your post though. You should familiarise yourself with both sides of the discourse between non-believers, deists and non-religious theists on the one side and religious theists on the other. Also, I think you lack critical thinking skills. I'd suggest it's not worth even attempting to convince others of your views until you fix that.

(August 30, 2012 at 2:30 am)CBA222 Wrote: Now assuming the universe did somehow exist, how did life appear? By chance? Practically impossible.

You can't say whether or not something is possible without data. What struck me most is not that you disagree with abiogenesis, but that you appear to either be totally ignorant of it or deliberately omitting it. Whether or not you disagree with it you still need to address scientific ideas about the origins of life. If you hope to make anything close to an argument you need to give reasons and evidence, not bald assertions. Also, you'd need to explain how you get from "I don't know" to "God did it" - being unimaginative is no excuse. Again, I'd recommend educating yourself on critical thinking. As far as I know there's not a conclusive (scientific) picture / theory of how life on Earth originated.

(August 30, 2012 at 2:30 am)CBA222 Wrote: All the complex code and cells and whatever, all point to an intelligent creator.

"And whatever"? Here's something to consider: why does it takes years for people to become professionals in fields such as biology? I don't think you should be attempting to use biology as your evidence if you know little or nothing about the subject. Another subject you'd do well to be knowledgeable on before that would be philosophy of science. I don't claim to be an expert in either (I'd consider my ignorant) yet I still seem to know more than you.

Well, I just went to the fridge to get some leftover pizza. Now I suddenly don't feel like finishing this post.

(August 30, 2012 at 8:01 am)FallentoReason Wrote:

greneknight Wrote:But there is no heaven and actually God isn't a being, but I won't touch on that.

I'm intrigued. I want to hear what your thoughts are but I don't want to derail this thread. Would it be too much to ask from you to start a new thread on this?

I don't mind talking about my beliefs but wouldn't it be weird if I started a thread to talk about MY own beliefs? I think that is forbidden by the rules because it would be seen as an attempt to proselytize even though proselytizing is the last thing on my mind.

If you ask the questions, I would be more than happy to answer them. I don't think I'll get banned here the way they banned me in Christian Forums.

Josephus: went unquoted for 300 years until (voila) the Christian historian Eusibus had his way with it in the 4th century. After his time, what do you know? Josephus 'speaks' about Jesus. Doubt it.

Tacitus: he clearly voices the beliefs of the Christians at the time, calling it a 'most superstitious belief'. That's no different to me telling you today what Christians believe. Evidence for Jesus? Don't think so.

Suetonius I've actually not looked at. The way things are looking for Jesus I doubt there's anything of worth anyways.

(August 30, 2012 at 8:16 am)CBA222 Wrote: a)I did not use it. I am just saying a real Christian would have a relationship with God and not just go to church for the sake of it and not learn anything there.

(Bolding mine.)
*facepalm* There you go again.

No true Scotsmans are always hilarious.

(August 30, 2012 at 8:16 am)CBA222 Wrote: and as greneknight has said, it's hard to prove God's existence.

No, I didn't say that. I have ALWAYS said this: There is ABSOLUTELY NO evidence or rational justification for God. Zilch evidence for God, zilch for Allah.......