(September 3, 2012 at 10:20 am)Drich Wrote:

(September 2, 2012 at 9:39 pm)greneknight Wrote: I don't think I know what that means. I was baptised as an infant and I'll be confirmed later this year when I return to England. I have served as an altar boy ever since I was 5. I've sung the Magnificat and the Nunc Dimittis since I was 6 - ALMOST EVERY DAY at Evensong. So far, I have been blessed by countless vicars, bishops and even the Archbishops of Canterbury and York. Does that sound like a Luke Warm Christian (whatever that means)?

It is someone who simply goes through the motions of Christianity, with no true desire or passion for God. Sort of a Check list theology. When one can list or claim all of the 'religious mile stones' he has past with no real desire or conviction for God.

In this passage Christ is Speaking:
Revelations 3:15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

Revelation is a ridiculous book. It took a long time before it became accepted in the canon and even then, it's suspicious. Lots of priests I know are dead opposed to the book because it was probably intended for something else and is such a weird and funny book. It really has no application to people today whatsoever even if we should view it as important.

(September 3, 2012 at 7:59 am)greneknight Wrote:

(September 3, 2012 at 7:46 am)CBA222 Wrote: Tell me, what is the point of Christianity? Tell me straight and clear.

I haven't thought of that. You must understand that there are many things I haven't thought about. So some of the questions require me to think through and come to some quick answers but of course my answers may not be comprehensive simply because I'm only thinking of them for the first time. I'm not an old man who's ruminated over these things for decades so you must bear with me.

This is how I see it.

Christianity is important because it's the bedrock of Western civilization. It is the source of our art, paintings, literature, drama, music, architecture and sculpture.

It's also built over the centuries a great deal of infrastructure that enables it to be used as a force of good. Of course I see a lot of problems to this but everything has problems of its own.

It's also needful for the usual human activities - the celebration of birth (baptism), coming of age (confirmation), marriage (holy matrimony) and death (funeral).

I would say Christianity has many important functions.

You don't need Christianity to be married or have a funeral... not to mention coming of age is also outside the need of religion. Also, a lot of he same things you say christianity is the source of there are countless other sources that have as much or more quantity and quality that were never close to being influenced by christianity.

(September 3, 2012 at 11:15 am)greneknight Wrote: Revelation is a ridiculous book. It took a long time before it became accepted in the canon and even then, it's suspicious. Lots of priests I know are dead opposed to the book because it was probably intended for something else and is such a weird and funny book. It really has no application to people today whatsoever even if we should view it as important.

What about the book of Matthew? do you also consider it to be a 'ridiculous book?' Because the sentiment is also mirrored there as well. (By Christ)
That said those 'dead preist' you mentioned would be able to recognize and respect what was written in Mat 7 even if they ignored what was written in Rev 3. So my question remains. Do you see yourself as a Luke warm Christian?

Quote:I think I agree with Bart Ehrman that Jesus was an apocalyptic zealot whose sole desire was to get rid of the Romans.

A point for which Ehrman has no evidence whatsoever. He seems to forget that.

(September 3, 2012 at 11:35 am)Drich Wrote:

(September 3, 2012 at 11:15 am)greneknight Wrote: Revelation is a ridiculous book. It took a long time before it became accepted in the canon and even then, it's suspicious. Lots of priests I know are dead opposed to the book because it was probably intended for something else and is such a weird and funny book. It really has no application to people today whatsoever even if we should view it as important.

What about the book of Matthew? do you also consider it to be a 'ridiculous book?' Because the sentiment is also mirrored there as well. (By Christ)
That said those 'dead preist' you mentioned would be able to recognize and respect what was written in Mat 7 even if they ignored what was written in Rev 3. So my question remains. Do you see yourself as a Luke warm Christian?

Have you not been reading? No, he doesn't consider himself a luke warm Christian. He has made it clear he feels he is a christian even though he doesn't believe in the things he doesn't believe.

(September 3, 2012 at 11:18 am)CaseyTheAthie Wrote:

(September 3, 2012 at 7:59 am)greneknight Wrote: I haven't thought of that. You must understand that there are many things I haven't thought about. So some of the questions require me to think through and come to some quick answers but of course my answers may not be comprehensive simply because I'm only thinking of them for the first time. I'm not an old man who's ruminated over these things for decades so you must bear with me.

This is how I see it.

Christianity is important because it's the bedrock of Western civilization. It is the source of our art, paintings, literature, drama, music, architecture and sculpture.

It's also built over the centuries a great deal of infrastructure that enables it to be used as a force of good. Of course I see a lot of problems to this but everything has problems of its own.

It's also needful for the usual human activities - the celebration of birth (baptism), coming of age (confirmation), marriage (holy matrimony) and death (funeral).

I would say Christianity has many important functions.

You don't need Christianity to be married or have a funeral... not to mention coming of age is also outside the need of religion. Also, a lot of he same things you say christianity is the source of there are countless other sources that have as much or more quantity and quality that were never close to being influenced by christianity.

Yes, you are absolutely right. But culturally for me personally, the church is the right place for me if i get married or when i'm dead. It's a personal thing. For others it may be some other places.

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(September 3, 2012 at 11:35 am)Drich Wrote:

(September 3, 2012 at 11:15 am)greneknight Wrote: Revelation is a ridiculous book. It took a long time before it became accepted in the canon and even then, it's suspicious. Lots of priests I know are dead opposed to the book because it was probably intended for something else and is such a weird and funny book. It really has no application to people today whatsoever even if we should view it as important.

What about the book of Matthew? do you also consider it to be a 'ridiculous book?' Because the sentiment is also mirrored there as well. (By Christ)
That said those 'dead preist' you mentioned would be able to recognize and respect what was written in Mat 7 even if they ignored what was written in Rev 3. So my question remains. Do you see yourself as a Luke warm Christian?

Haha, the priests aren't dead. They are dead opposed to Revelation. St Matthew has many errors and the writer even cooked up stories to make Jesus fulfil OT prophecies. But it's got useful passages too, like every book in the Bible. There are rotten bits and good bits.

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(September 3, 2012 at 11:51 am)CaseyTheAthie Wrote:

(September 3, 2012 at 11:35 am)Drich Wrote: What about the book of Matthew? do you also consider it to be a 'ridiculous book?' Because the sentiment is also mirrored there as well. (By Christ)
That said those 'dead preist' you mentioned would be able to recognize and respect what was written in Mat 7 even if they ignored what was written in Rev 3. So my question remains. Do you see yourself as a Luke warm Christian?

Have you not been reading? No, he doesn't consider himself a luke warm Christian. He has made it clear he feels he is a christian even though he doesn't believe in the things he doesn't believe.

Thanks for making it plain. I don't like to appear like I'm boasting but I think I'm quite a good Christian. Considering what I do for the church, I think I'm a much better Christian, more pious and devout than most. Drich, if you don't mind my asking, are you an altar boy or were you ever one? I've been one since I was 5. Have you been singing Evensong as I have since I was about 6 until recently when I was pulled out because the Dean felt some of us were too close to that age when our voices would become unstable. He doesn't like surprises. So I've been singing the Magnificat and the Nunc Dimittis almost EVERYDAY for most of my life. You call that a luke warm Christian? Ho Ho Ho! That's all I can say.

Light some candles, sing some songs, requirements for piety met

There are atheists who are more piously christian than -some- christians, and christians that are more hedonistic and "unclean" than -some- atheists. I sing hymns (like a boss) all day long, requirement of my southern roots. Guess that makes me a -boiling hot- christian.

(September 3, 2012 at 12:21 pm)greneknight Wrote: But it's got useful passages too, like every book in the Bible. There are rotten bits and good bits.

The important next question is, are there any true bits? Any relevant bits? And if there are true and relevant bits, are they only true and relevant because they are in the bible or would they remain as such regardless of their source?

(September 3, 2012 at 4:33 pm)Stimbo Wrote:

(September 3, 2012 at 12:21 pm)greneknight Wrote: But it's got useful passages too, like every book in the Bible. There are rotten bits and good bits.

The important next question is, are there any true bits? Any relevant bits? And if there are true and relevant bits, are they only true and relevant because they are in the bible or would they remain as such regardless of their source?

There are true and relevant bits and they remain true regardless of the source.

Why not source those "true" and "relevant" bits from a place that doesn't have all the garbage attached then?